Mothering Magazine Sponsored Chat with Barbara Harper -- Founder and director of Waterbirth International Resource and Referral Service ( www.waterbirth.org ), Barbara has been researching and documenting waterbirth and gentle birth since 1983. An internationally recognized expert, she lectures and consults in hospitals and universities. She is the author of Gentle Birth Choices (2005) and the producer of the videos Gentle Birth Choices and Birth Into Being.
www.mothering.com
7/25/07

12 mamas in attendance

Webmama_Tina: This week's chat is with Barbara Harper-- Founder and director of Waterbirth International Resource and Referral Service, Barbara has been researching and documenting waterbirth and gentle birth since 1983. An internationally recognized expert, she lectures and consults in hospitals and universities. She is the author of Gentle Birth Choices (2005) and the producer of the videos Gentle Birth Choices and Birth Into Being.
Webmama_Tina: barbara did you have anything you wanted to add to your intro?
waterbirthqueen: I am also an experienced midwife and mother of three children, two of whom where born at home in water
waterbirthqueen: my boys are now 22 and 20 and my baby just left for college (again) yesterday.
Webmama_Tina: aww
Webmama_Tina: :)
SandraMort: ?
Webmama_Tina: ok mamas, if you have a question for barbara, please post a single question mark and we can get started
Webmama_Tina: ok sandra, you're up first! go for it!
SandraMort: Ready?
Webmama_Tina: yup, go for it
SandraMort: Background information:  I have three kids, all born at home.  Labor was 7h, 3.5h and 1h at 38w, 42w and 42.5w  I had a fishy pool for 1 & 2 and an aquadoula (SO much nicer) for 3.
waterbirthqueen: okay
SandraMort: I labored in the water for each and got out for different reasons each time, despite wanting to birth in the water.
SandraMort: I have four bad discs in my lower back, therefore excruciating torturously agonizing back pain in labor and would really really like to have water as an option for this upcoming birth, however...
Breeze4869: hello
Webmama_Tina: hello breeze!
waterbirthqueen: the promotion of waterbirth is wonderful and has been my life for many years but....
Webmama_Tina: Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm  ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single \?\" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called. "
Breeze4869: hey tina! 
SandraMort: I have a small NYC apartment and a toddler and don't really know how I can devote the space to a pool for a month, much less something that will be unsafe to be unsupervised around a toddler.
SandraMort: I'd love to get a japanese soaking tub, sizewise they're perfect....
waterbirthqueen: not every mother and baby want to birth in the water
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: SandraMort....upcoming chatters: none in queue currently
SandraMort: but I don't think they're available for rent.
SandraMort: Do you have any suggestions?
waterbirthqueen: On what kinds of birth pools to look at?
SandraMort: or any other brainstorming...
SandraMort: there could be an easy solution i'm not seeing.
waterbirthqueen: The only one that I can think of that would match your needs for \covered and locked\" and ready and waiting for a fast labor is the Spa in a Box"
SandraMort: nod
SandraMort: whch is 5' across?
SandraMort: that's kinda big :(
waterbirthqueen: Many women set it up an have it running, but locked
SandraMort: I'd have to get rid of the dining room table -- can I eat on it? ;)
waterbirthqueen: yes, large, but you need that size for adequate relaxation and stretching out and getting into any position the baby dictates in his/her movements
SandraMort: oh, I know the theory... i'm just trying to figure out how to make it work in this small space
waterbirthqueen: I replaced my dinning room table in one home with an outdoor hot tub - right in my dinning room!!
SandraMort: nod
SandraMort: that's basically where i'd have to put it
waterbirthqueen: we used to have buffets on it - candelabras and everything
SandraMort: would an outdoor hot tub keep the water hot?  I'd have to keep it filled for weeks... 
SandraMort: i mean, changing water now and then, of course
waterbirthqueen: it is soooo worth the relaxation and even the hassle
SandraMort: not worried about the hassle, really
waterbirthqueen: the spa in the box keeps the water warm.
waterbirthqueen: you don't want HOT water for birth
SandraMort: are those available for rent?
SandraMort: don't want cold in feb, though.
waterbirthqueen:  that is the one thing that makes women get out the most is the water is too hot for them
SandraMort: can't say i ever wanted to get out :)
waterbirthqueen: yes, the Spa in a Box is available for rent on our website  www.waterbirth.org
SandraMort: Thanks to hot water, I was able to birth an 11 lb baby over an intact perineum
SandraMort: but castor oil led to some leaking, so i had to get out after he crowned
waterbirthqueen: yay!!!!
waterbirthqueen: I would not have asked you to get out
SandraMort: water - excellent.  I will look into it, thank you.  Any other tips I should keep in mind?
SandraMort: Yeah, retrospectively, I should have stayed in, but it was sooooo fast
SandraMort: 65 minutes total
waterbirthqueen: you must keep the water clean and we have a whole procedure for that
SandraMort: the web site details that?
waterbirthqueen: I would be happy to email you the procedure or discuss it with you
SandraMort: fantastic, i'll be in touch :)  I'm only 16w pg, so I've got plenty of time... esp if this one goes 42+ weeks again!
waterbirthqueen: when are you due - Feb??
SandraMort: no, jan
SandraMort: but i don't expect him/her until feb.
waterbirthqueen: okay
waterbirthqueen: yes, with your history of late babies
SandraMort: i evicted the third at 42.5 weeks and would like to avoid doing that again if possible
SandraMort: blech
waterbirthqueen: i stand corrected - babies who come when they choose!!
SandraMort: :) 
SandraMort: This one's gonna be 14 lbs and i'll sneeze her out, I'm sure.  LOl
Webmama_Tina: mamas, if you have a question for barbara, just post a single question mark so we can add you to the queue\
Webmama_Tina: lol sandra
SandraMort: tina - seriously, if the time halves again?!?  LOL
Breeze4869: ?
SandraMort: anyway, thank you.
Webmama_Tina: wowee
waterbirthqueen: you are welcome
Webmama_Tina: breeze, go ahead, you're next
waterbirthqueen: my phone number is 800-641-2229
Breeze4869: sand can i come to new york and watch :D
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: Breeze4869 
waterbirthqueen: ask the girls to put you right through
Cristin-N-Bella-PG: lmao
Bethn2kidspg: lol
Breeze4869: i promise to give good back massage and use pressure points!
waterbirthqueen: I have been helping women get into hot water for 23 years
waterbirthqueen: I could use a good massage right now
waterbirthqueen: where are you Breese
Webmama_Tina: breeze, go ahead with your question for barbara
Webmama_Tina: barbara
Webmama_Tina: lol can't type
Breeze4869: hehehe
Breeze4869: i asked my question! lol
Cristin-N-Bella-PG: as long as i've been alive, barbara ;)
waterbirthqueen: okay
Webmama_Tina: no question for barbara?
bparrish55: ?
Cristin-N-Bella-PG: thinking of a question ;)
Webmama_Tina: ok bp, go ahead then
waterbirthqueen: you should have been born in my hot tub, Cristin
Bethn2kidspg: I wish I could do a home birth :( 
Webmama_Tina: Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm  ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single \?\" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called. "
Breeze4869: when i had my last baby i tried to stay in the tub as long as possible.. but third stage hit and i couldn't take it and got out.. some techniques to help during that part would be helpful?
waterbirthqueen: what are your circumstances beth
waterbirthqueen: my daughter's name is Beth
Bethn2kidspg: lol cool
Cristin-N-Bella-PG: my mom might've appreciated that, barbara... with me being 3wks late and her having a 36hr labor w/me ;)
Bethn2kidspg: I am so high risk waterbirth
Webmama_Tina: mamas, lets take turns please...less confusing for the speaker if she only has one person at a time to respond to ;)
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: Breeze4869...upcoming chatters: bparrish55 
waterbirthqueen: I am an experienced chatter from AOL IM with my two boys in college
Webmama_Tina: :)
waterbirthqueen: But, I agree with Tina
jsakjMa5: *peeks in*
Webmama_Tina: easier read for the transcripts too :)
momoftwins0203: hi
Bethn2kidspg: hi
Webmama_Tina: ok so we have breeze's question....did you get that one barbara?
jsakjMa5: whatcha all doin?
jsakjMa5: whats the topic?
Webmama_Tina: Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm  ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single \?\" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called. "
waterbirthqueen: What is Breeze's question?
Webmama_Tina: today's speaker: Founder and director of Waterbirth International Resource and Referral Service, Barbara has been researching and documenting waterbirth and gentle birth since 1983. An internationally recognized expert, she lectures and consults in hospitals and universities. She is the author of Gentle Birth Choices (2005) and the producer of the videos Gentle Birth Choices and Birth Into Being. 
Webmama_Tina: i'll repost it barbara
waterbirthqueen: okay
Webmama_Tina: [Breeze4869] when i had my last baby i tried to stay in the tub as long as possible.. but third stage hit and i couldn't take it and got out.. some techniques to help during that part would be helpful?
Breeze4869: sorry.. when i had my last baby i used the tub.. but when i got to the last stage of labour it got difficult and i got out.. looking for techniques i could have used to stay in the water
Breeze4869: lol sorry was retyping
Webmama_Tina: sorry for some reason my paste wasn't working
Webmama_Tina: got it to work finally
Webmama_Tina: ok so there's the same question twice, LOL! :()
Webmama_Tina: :)
waterbirthqueen: staying in the water is only an OPTION, not a requirement
waterbirthqueen: I got out with my third baby for the placenta because I was tired and wanted to get into the bed and breastfeed
Breeze4869: but it is the best part of labour
waterbirthqueen: bonding with the baby and hanging in the tub??
Breeze4869: no the pain relief lol
Breeze4869: i regret getting out 
waterbirthqueen: the pain relief for 3rd stage, oh, I got it
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: Breeze4869 ...upcoming chatters: bparrish55 
Breeze4869: please let bparrish go :)
waterbirthqueen: well, sooner or later, the point is to get the baby to self attach to the breast
waterbirthqueen: and this will cause a lot of cramping, especially as the baby pushes into the uterus and moves north for the breast
waterbirthqueen: just the sucking will cause more cramping
waterbirthqueen: many mothers are unaware during pregnancy that the most \painful\" part of labor is after the baby is born and those unrelenting \"cramps\" take over"
Breeze4869: oh that confused me a minute.. you mean letting the baby find the breast on its own?
waterbirthqueen: but mother nature made it so you can gaze lovingly into those baby's eyes and calmly forget that it hurts like \he---\" "
Breeze4869: oh not me.. the most painful for me is the part right before pushing.. then the pushing contractions
waterbirthqueen: why yes,  Babies know how to crawl to the breast and attach, just like they know how to be born!!
Breeze4869: parrish can go i'm finished tina
waterbirthqueen: Oh, by the way, just so you know.  My clients are \trained\" not to push at all"
Webmama_Tina: ok bp, you're up!
waterbirthqueen: they BREATHE the baby out or SING the baby out
Breeze4869: i did not push  so mush as let my body do it
waterbirthqueen: good
waterbirthqueen: it can be an overwhelming urge to bear down
waterbirthqueen: I even have women breathe through those urges, too
Breeze4869: it had no choice in the matter lol
waterbirthqueen: I know it was like a lightening bolt hit my body when my baby started coming out
SandraMort: I don't think i could handle that
SandraMort: well, not if it was like last time
waterbirthqueen: It felt wonderful, but freaked out my midwife!!
bparrish55: I knew that statement would get some comments first....Do you have any tips on estimating blood loss in water...asking as a midwife
waterbirthqueen: I like to use chants like \OMMMMMMM\""
waterbirthqueen: Well, the darker the water gets the more blood there is
waterbirthqueen: ha ha
bparrish55: gee thanks
waterbirthqueen: we have a gradient chart based on wine flavors
waterbirthqueen: you know, chablis
waterbirthqueen: rose
waterbirthqueen: burgandy
waterbirthqueen: merlot
waterbirthqueen: No, I am not an wino
bparrish55: wouldn't that still depend on the volume of the tub?
waterbirthqueen: just after so many years of dealing with this we decided to make a chart
waterbirthqueen: yes and no
waterbirthqueen: there is no sure way to estimate the volume of blood loss in a land birth, either
waterbirthqueen: it is all a guestimate
bparrish55: at what flavor do you start to get concerned?
waterbirthqueen: we get really good at guestimating
bparrish55: is this chart on your site?
waterbirthqueen: but when it comes to getting concerned, first I LOOK AT THE MOTHER
bparrish55: true that
waterbirthqueen: the chart is in my professional credentially lecture
bparrish55: also, a hospital near me used to allow waterbirths
waterbirthqueen: like at the Waterbirth Credentialing Workshop at the Gentle Birth World Congress in Sept
bparrish55: but they experienced some infant deaths which they attributed to chlorine?
waterbirthqueen: we are actually going to set up a Birth Pool in a Box and poor cow blood in 1/2 cup at a time
waterbirthqueen: that sounds pretty ridiculous to me
bparrish55: so you can see what color the water is?
waterbirthqueen: both the attribute and the chlorine
bparrish55: well it made me wonder what their sterilization process was for the whirlpool tub
waterbirthqueen: where was that???
bparrish55: or their criteria for determining the cause of death
bparrish55: I think it was perhaps Tifton, GA?
waterbirthqueen: it would have had to be \aspiration\""
bparrish55: my wonderful, backward illegal state
waterbirthqueen: but that is liberally applied when they don't know the cause
waterbirthqueen: oh, it was a waterbirth?  Guess the baby aspirated.
waterbirthqueen: There are very few, if any proven aspirations throughout the world
bparrish55: so using unchlorinated water is not recommended
waterbirthqueen: the word used is \possible.\""
waterbirthqueen: to clean the bathtub??
bparrish55: no, to fill the tub
waterbirthqueen: all water from taps in the US, if they are city water, are chlorinated
waterbirthqueen: the chlorine evaporates in a few hours
bparrish55: ok
waterbirthqueen: it comes off the water
bparrish55: any tips for keeping the water warm?  water bed heater?
waterbirthqueen: you have more risk of developing cancer from the chlorine vapors in your shower than you do from cigarette smoke
bparrish55: that's why I want a filter for my shower, LOL
waterbirthqueen: but, even with that, we can't go having waterbirths with bottled water
waterbirthqueen: we decided that over 20 years ago
waterbirthqueen: the exposure to the baby is minimal - during the birth
bparrish55: well many of my homebirths are out in the country with their own wells
waterbirthqueen: and if you are comfortable bathing in the water, then you should feel comfortable birthing in it
bparrish55: ok...when and where is the congress this year?
waterbirthqueen: that is okay, but watch for little bug type critters
waterbirthqueen: like giardia
bparrish55: hadn't thought of that
waterbirthqueen: that is far more lethal to the baby than the chlorine
waterbirthqueen: good questions
waterbirthqueen: you are in georgia
bparrish55: yes and am the only direct entry south of central part of the state
waterbirthqueen: The Gentle Birth World Congress www.gentlebirthworld.com   is in Portland, Oregon, September 27-30
waterbirthqueen: Are you on our referral list?
waterbirthqueen: how many of your moms ask for waterbirth or water labor
bparrish55: I don't think so.....most of them want it
bparrish55: the majority
bparrish55: it's such as easy, non-interventive pain relief that works very well for most people
waterbirthqueen: Well, send me an email with all your info and we'll put you on our list
bparrish55: will do
waterbirthqueen: I just had a mom call from Georgia today looking for a midwife
bparrish55: if she's not in my area I will probably know someone that is
bparrish55: contact you through the website?
waterbirthqueen: We actually sent her to North Fulton Regional Hosp - Margaret Strickhouser
waterbirthqueen: or email me at barbara@waterbirth.org
bparrish55: did she want a homebirth or hospital?
waterbirthqueen: hospital, but every woman I talk to, I recommend home birth and give them at least a few name of midwives to call
bparrish55: ok because there are quite a handful of CPMs in Atlanta area
bparrish55: practicing opening with good backup
waterbirthqueen: I tell them, \just call a midwife and make an appointment for a free consult\"   She'll be able to tell you some resources in your area."
waterbirthqueen: Deb Pulley
bparrish55: yes she is one of the most well-known
waterbirthqueen: We need them all listed that is for sure
Webmama_Tina: if anyone else has any questions for barbara, please post a single question mark so i can make sure you get on the queue
SandraMort: I think I know one of Deb's apprentices
waterbirthqueen: Our database is really big, but our referral service can use some upgrading
bparrish55: I will send you the state midwifery association's site with referral list
waterbirthqueen: great!!
SandraMort: ?
bparrish55: I feel I am monopolizing now
Webmama_Tina: naw, no one else had a question til now :)  sandra, go for it!
SandraMort: that's ok, i was getting dinner... 
Breeze4869: i enjoy reading this stuff so naw!
SandraMort: i'll take a turn bugging her ;)
waterbirthqueen: dinner - that sounds good!!
waterbirthqueen: I have a nursing professor visiting me from Taiwan this month and she prepared a Chinese feast last night
SandraMort: have you any experience working with moms with herniated discs?  If so, have you noticed any correlation between that and any variations (don't really think complications quote covered it), and do you have any suggestions for pain management techniques... 
SandraMort: i'm particulaly interested in finding out if saline injections help 
SandraMort: or anything else, really
SandraMort: quite, not quote.
bparrish55: just wanted to interject....TENS?
SandraMort: won't help under water :)
waterbirthqueen: for back pain a sterile water papule injection really does take ALL the pain away
waterbirthqueen: and combined with water, it is miraculous
waterbirthqueen: BUTTTTTTTT
SandraMort: butttt...?
waterbirthqueen: They hurt like the dickens going in
SandraMort: nod
waterbirthqueen: most women cry like a baby for a few moments until they realize their back doesn't hurt anymore
waterbirthqueen: then they start smiling
SandraMort: being afraid of needles doesn't help much, I'd imagine
waterbirthqueen: I have it on video and it is amazing to see
waterbirthqueen: TENS units are OK, but you can't use them combined in the water
SandraMort: i hesitate to count on the injections -- wouldn't they offer them to me now if it would help?
waterbirthqueen: Acupuncture needles work well, too - and they can go in the water, but not with the electrodes attached
bparrish55: no instead of if water wasn't working
SandraMort: tyeah, the acupuncturist doesn't do house calls
waterbirthqueen: now, during your pregnancy??
SandraMort: and obviously it wouldn't work for me to leave the house
SandraMort: water - yes, the pain i have in labor is the same as i normally have, it's not 'back labor'
waterbirthqueen: from your back problem
SandraMort: it's basically like one of my worst days rather than one of my better days
SandraMort: yes
waterbirthqueen: okay
waterbirthqueen: ask your midwives if they have ever used Sterile Water Papules
SandraMort: L5-S1 is gone.  L4-5 is herniated and the two above that are damaged but not herniated yes
waterbirthqueen: I would recommend that you give it a try
SandraMort: yes, i had planned to
SandraMort: but other than that?  any other tricks up your sleeve?
waterbirthqueen: I did have a mother with a similar injury have a waterbirth, but her husband was an osteopath
SandraMort: ah, i wish :)
waterbirthqueen: he adjusted her every single day
SandraMort: yeah, i go to the chiro at least weekly
SandraMort: but daily would be wonderful
waterbirthqueen: and during the labor he did a double hip squeeze throughout the entire labor
Breeze4869: acupressure?
SandraMort: he actually said that if i go into labor on a day he's open, he'll come over and adjust me
waterbirthqueen: I would recommend an osteopath over a chiropractor
SandraMort: why?
SandraMort: not disagreeing, just wondering...
waterbirthqueen: more gentle manipulation of your spine and movement of spinal fluid
waterbirthqueen: or network chiro
waterbirthqueen: I feel for you, definitely
SandraMort: i'm not familiar with network chiro, but the chiropractor i used that had the activator, rather than manual adjustments, was a complete waste of my time
SandraMort: i got much worse under that care
SandraMort: i had to insist she stop using it and manually adjust me
waterbirthqueen: yes, even that can be painful
SandraMort: it wasn't painful, it just didn't do anything
waterbirthqueen: does the water actually assist you in labor?
SandraMort: ye
SandraMort: es
SandraMort: lol
waterbirthqueen: good
SandraMort: oh, there was a huge difference in and out of the water
Webmama_Tina: i use a \non-popping\" chiro"
SandraMort: tina - yeah, i tried that, it didn't help me at all
Webmama_Tina: deep muscle massage primarily...is that like an osteopath?
SandraMort: in fact, the dr who has had the best success has been the roughest
Webmama_Tina: no gadget, just his hands...very very deep massage
SandraMort: my body really resists the adjustments
waterbirthqueen: no, and osteopath uses his hands to feel the movement of your Cerebral Spinal Fluid - and have a cranio sacral therapy session
Webmama_Tina: helped me tremendously during my 2nd and 3rd pregnancies when my hip pain was excruciating
waterbirthqueen: that is what I go for once a month and send all our mamas to 
SandraMort: oh, one more thing?
Webmama_Tina: ah never heard of that then
SandraMort: the spa 2 go?
SandraMort: Diameter: 25\ inner, 74\" Outer"
SandraMort: the inside is 2 feet across?
waterbirthqueen: we have a spa to go for rent here
waterbirthqueen: no it is 52 diameter
SandraMort: ohhhh, your web site says 25
waterbirthqueen: 25 inches tall
SandraMort: i copied and pasted
waterbirthqueen: oops
SandraMort: lol
waterbirthqueen: thanks for being an editor
SandraMort: yeah, the rental information is also not available
waterbirthqueen: The mini Birth Pool in a Box might work for you
SandraMort: how much is that one compared to the pool above it?
Breeze4869: i went to get a link for you sand may i post it?
waterbirthqueen: no, we don't advertise that it is for rent
SandraMort: it looked good until i read that you can't use a heater
Breeze4869: i will pass it to her later
SandraMort: and i won't have time to fill the pool when i go into labor, most likely]
SandraMort: breeze - ok
waterbirthqueen: that is true
waterbirthqueen: I still think the Birth Pool in a Box
waterbirthqueen: Sorry - Spa in a Box - got my birth pools mixed up
SandraMort: yes, i'm looking at it, i knew what you meant
SandraMort: is there any weight limit to it?
SandraMort: the mini pool went up to 210
SandraMort: i'm more than that
SandraMort: (to sit on the side)
waterbirthqueen: The Spa can support just about any weight - not 550#, but reasonable and pregnant
SandraMort: nod
Webmama_Tina: ok mamas, we're out of time...thank you so much for coming!
SandraMort: lol 
waterbirthqueen: wow
waterbirthqueen: that went fast
SandraMort: miriam may own a pool, i'll have to ask her before making the arrangements
Webmama_Tina: barbara, this was great! thanks for sharing with us!
SandraMort: but thank you for coming
bparrish55: yes thanks
Breeze4869: thanks barbara :)
waterbirthqueen: miriam schwartzchild
SandraMort: yes
SandraMort: is there another miriam?
SandraMort: ;)
Webmama_Tina: would you like to share your website and email again for anyone that might have some more questions for you?
waterbirthqueen: she sends a lot of her mamas to us
SandraMort: she's good people.
waterbirthqueen: www.waterbirth.org
SandraMort: she was at my daughter's birth -- i caught her, though :)
waterbirthqueen: barbara@waterbirth.org
waterbirthqueen: 800-641-2229
Webmama_Tina: thank you barbara!
waterbirthqueen: you are very welcome
waterbirthqueen: anytime
Webmama_Tina: i will try to have the transcripts up by next week. depends on how my days go :)
waterbirthqueen: good night everyone