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12:07:25 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Yes, the CATSM stands for Certified in
Acute Traumatic Stress Management. I'm
also a member of the American Academy of
Experts on Traumatic Stress. I have a
book chapter in press called, The impact
of traumatic childbirth on health
through the undermining of
breastfeeding." I have known many women
who have struggled to overcome a
traumatic childbirth experience--and
most of them had a very hard time
finding anyone who really understood the
legitimacy of what they were coping
with." |
|
12:03:33 |
Webmama_Tina |
okey dokey, guess its a slow chat
today...well then we can have an
informal one! :) |
|
12:03:39 |
Webmama_Tina |
lets see...the topic today.... |
|
12:04:00 |
Webmama_Tina |
Cynthia Good Mojab, MS, IBCLC, RLC,
CATSM is a clinical counselor,
international board certified lactation
consultant, author, researcher, and
speaker. Through her private practice,
LifeCircle Counseling and Consulting
(LLC) she offers a blend of
psychological and lactation services to
women and health care providers, in
person and by phone. In this chat,
Cynthia will talk about recovering from
a difficult or traumatic birth
experience. |
|
12:04:08 |
mom0810 |
? |
|
12:04:17 |
Webmama_Tina |
cynthia did you want to add anything to
that? |
|
12:04:37 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh and man do i have traumatic birth
experiences for you! :( |
|
12:06:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
hello? anyone there? :) |
|
12:07:30 |
Webmama_Tina |
ah ha |
|
12:07:31 |
Webmama_Tina |
:) |
|
12:07:37 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
: ) |
|
12:08:20 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok mom0810, you're up first! |
|
12:08:34 |
mom0810 |
My first son was born in December 2005.
It was a very traumaic experience, in
that I was induced at 38 weeks, in
labor for 25 hours (on a monitor that
was broken so they kept upping my
pitocin) and then ending in a C section
after pushing for 2 hours |
|
12:08:48 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh, shall we have a show of hands if
you've experienced a traumatic birth
experience? |
|
12:08:57 |
Webmama_Tina |
*raises 2 hands* |
|
12:09:16 |
pyxiwulf |
*raises hand* |
|
12:09:24 |
Webmama_Tina |
ouch mom0810 |
|
12:09:26 |
Webmama_Tina |
:( |
|
12:09:33 |
mom0810 |
because he was stuck. Then, he would
not bfbecause he had meconium plug that
he did not pass until the 2nd day. They
kept him in the NICU for 4 days. I am
having an awful time getting over it,
and he is 9 months old! |
|
12:10:42 |
mom0810 |
I did not sleep and they were keeping
him in the NICU on FORMULA and did not
care that I wanted to bf him. I finally
got my doctor to get him discharged, and
thank God once he was out of the
hospital, he started nursing and is
doing fine now. |
|
12:10:56 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
That sounds like a very, very difficult
experience, mom0810. |
|
12:11:22 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Have you been able to find any support
for coping with all of this? |
|
12:11:32 |
mom0810 |
The hardest thing was not being able to
bring him home. I had two miscarriages
prior to this pregnancy. |
|
12:11:42 |
mom0810 |
Well, friends and family. |
|
12:12:18 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Having a newborn in the NICU is such a
very hard experience--even if birth
itself went well. |
|
12:12:49 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Were you afraid that he would die, after
having lost two other babies through
miscarriage? |
|
12:13:39 |
mom0810 |
The hardest part was that there was no
reason for keeping him. All of the
testing was normal and every doctor I
have spoken to since said there was no
reason for him to stay. Yes, I was
afraid he would die and never come home |
|
12:15:34 |
mom0810 |
The nurses were telling me he could have
meningitis or Hirschprung's or all of
these things. I left the hospital and
just cried like I never have before...
wailing. I thought he would never come
home and the nurses were adding to my
fear. |
|
12:15:48 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Four days separated from your baby and
afraid he would die--and then to have no
reason for keeping him. Did you feel
powerless against the health care
providers who said he needed to be
hospitalized? |
|
12:16:57 |
mom0810 |
YES! Every time I would ask WHY is he
still here, they would just pat me on
the head and say things like, don't you
worry about it, he will come home
someday. The only reason he was
released is that I demanded it. He was
fine the minute we got home |
|
12:17:02 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Yes, how frightening to be told of these
possibilities and to have to leave him
at the hospital... |
|
12:17:25 |
mom0810 |
My milk came in as soon as we got him
home and he latched on that day. He
would not do this in the hospital. |
|
12:17:49 |
Webmama_Tina |
for latecomers--Welcome to this week's
Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a
moderated chat. Please make sure you
read and fully understand the Moderated
Chat Instructions before participating
in this chat. Instructions can be found
here:
http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm
...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not
post unless it is your turn to ask a
question. If you have a question, please
post a single ?" and you'll be added to
the queue. Have your question ready when
your name is called." |
|
12:17:54 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
So you were not offered any real
opportunity to make an informed decision
about whether he stayed in the NICU or
not. Just told it was necessary and that
there were no alternatives. |
|
12:19:01 |
mom0810 |
The doctor was a neonatologist from
Children's and very holier than thou.
She did not offer any justification for
her thinking. The scary thought is, we
have EXCELLENT health insurance and the
NICU and nursery were empty. I hate to
think the motivation |
|
12:19:14 |
mom0810 |
was financial.. but it's hard not to. |
|
12:19:18 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Mother-infant separation interferes with
breastfeeding, infant development,
maternal development, the stability of
multiple bodily processes in infants
(e.g., temperature maintenance, normal
oxygenation, etc.).... |
|
12:19:59 |
mom0810 |
i just feel very violated. |
|
12:20:03 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
And, if we can't trust our health care
providers, then what? |
|
12:20:12 |
mom0810 |
exactly. |
|
12:20:31 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Violated in your trust of your health
care providers, your rights as a mother,
your baby's needs...? |
|
12:20:44 |
mom0810 |
all of the above |
|
12:20:47 |
Webmama_Tina |
heck *I* want to write a letter of
fury/complaint to them for you now!!! |
|
12:21:11 |
Webmama_Tina |
:( {{{{{hug}}}}} |
|
12:21:12 |
mom0810 |
I did write a letter, but no response. |
|
12:21:19 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
No response?! |
|
12:21:26 |
mom0810 |
Nope. |
|
12:21:34 |
Webmama_Tina |
wow that's unacceptable |
|
12:22:12 |
mom0810 |
And, I insisted on having ALL of his
records and they tried to tell me I
could not have them |
|
12:22:28 |
Webmama_Tina |
ah hell no |
|
12:22:29 |
mom0810 |
made me wait for 2 months to get them |
|
12:22:39 |
Webmama_Tina |
sorry..i'm feelin for ya. grrrrrrrr |
|
12:22:58 |
Webmama_Tina |
where do you live, if i may ask? |
|
12:22:59 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
There's a concept called secondary
traumatization." It happens when a
mother is traumatized and then she
reveals that traumatization in some way
and the response to her revelation is
completely unsupportive, invalidating,
etc. Then a mother feels traumatized all
over again." |
|
12:23:21 |
Webmama_Tina |
*nodding* |
|
12:23:22 |
pyxiwulf |
? |
|
12:23:37 |
mom0810 |
Illinois. northwest of Chicago. |
|
12:23:41 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
It can stop a mother from trying to
reaching out again--which can pose real
barriers for healing... |
|
12:23:52 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: Webmama_Tina
...upcoming chatter: pyxiwulf |
|
12:23:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
wow |
|
12:24:07 |
Webmama_Tina |
i wouldn't think of IL as backward |
|
12:24:26 |
Webmama_Tina |
not THAT backward |
|
12:24:45 |
Webmama_Tina |
erg |
|
12:25:03 |
Webmama_Tina |
that was supposed to be: current
chatter: mom0810 ...upcoming chatter:
pyxiwulf |
|
12:25:19 |
mom0810 |
No, and we live in an affluent area.
I'm 32 years old and college educated.
I just couldn't understand why this
doctor did not think I was smart enough
to understand what was goin on. |
|
12:25:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
:( |
|
12:25:57 |
mom0810 |
I'll let the next person go... |
|
12:26:01 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
And, it's not like you could easily go
doctor shopping having just given birth,
having a baby in the NICU, coping with
trauma and fear, etc. |
|
12:26:12 |
Webmama_Tina |
did you have a question mom0810 ? |
|
12:26:37 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Thank you for sharing a little of your
experience mom0810. That is a lot to be
coping with... |
|
12:26:46 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Is there another question? |
|
12:26:55 |
Webmama_Tina |
pyxiwulf is up next |
|
12:27:48 |
pyxiwulf |
I had wanted an at home birth to avoid
interventions, but my husband was scared
of that so I comprimised with a mw
hospital birth. |
|
12:28:31 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
That's a common conflict between
partners.... |
|
12:28:41 |
pyxiwulf |
I ended up attached to the bed with an
IV, O2, amnio infusion and internal
monitor. I hadn't been off the bed in 20
hours by the time she was born |
|
12:29:00 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Every intervention you didn't want... |
|
12:29:13 |
pyxiwulf |
now, all I can think about is having
another just to have an at home,n o
comrimise this time, but I knwo theis is
not reasonble thinking for having
another child |
|
12:29:36 |
pyxiwulf |
I can't stop it though |
|
12:29:58 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
After a difficult or traumatic birth,
many women have a strong desire for
another child and a redeeming"
experience. It can really be a very
strong desire." |
|
12:30:54 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Even though their intellect" recognizes
that it's not reasonable thinking, the
heart is yearning for healing...." |
|
12:31:03 |
pyxiwulf |
i feel even worse now, #1 is adopted and
i wanted to make sure #2 was bio so that
i would experience child birth, but the
urge is horrible now |
|
12:31:28 |
pyxiwulf |
and I am already being treated for ppd |
|
12:32:07 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
So, you had a dream of biological birth
without interventions...at home, with
support, a good experience... |
|
12:32:44 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
It sounds like you are grieving the loss
of your dream. Yearning is a part of
grieving. |
|
12:33:12 |
pyxiwulf |
yes, gerttin |
|
12:33:34 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
PPD and grief have many overlapping
symptoms. May I ask what kind of
treatment for PPD you are engaging in? |
|
12:33:38 |
pyxiwulf |
errr...seeing this as i talk about it
finally |
|
12:33:47 |
pyxiwulf |
50mg zoloft |
|
12:33:56 |
pyxiwulf |
and bfing |
|
12:34:04 |
pyxiwulf |
:) |
|
12:34:07 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
: ) |
|
12:34:41 |
kristi |
? |
|
12:35:25 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
While the use of psychotropic
medications can be useful for the
treatment of PPD, they do nothing to
help a woman grieve well. Have you
considered talking with a mental health
care provider who specializes in issues
such as grieving a lost birth
experience? |
|
12:36:39 |
pyxiwulf |
no, I actually haven't considred that.
I was being treated for PPD preemptively
due to my history, but obvioously I have
more to mess with my head now |
|
12:36:49 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
The loss of a dreamed of or expected
birth experience is a legitimate
loss--even if it is not widely
recognized in many societies. |
|
12:38:25 |
pyxiwulf |
thank you for opening my eyes, I didn't
realize I was quite this upset over it. |
|
12:39:11 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
This could be something to explore.
Sometimes new losses (e.g., birth
related) stir up old losses that a woman
never had the chance to grieve well. Or
grief and PPD happen at the same time.
Regardless of why grief is happening, it
doesn't go away on its own. To grieve
well, we need companionship--the chance
to feel sad, to speak our loss, to
receive support, .... This kind of
support can come from friends and
family. But sometimes, they just can't
give what we need. ICAN groups can be a
source of support. Counseling can be a
source of support. |
|
12:39:29 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
You're welcome. You have every right to
be upset. |
|
12:40:16 |
Cynthia_Good_Mojab |
Is there another question? |
|
12:40:31 |
luvshmi |
? |
|
12:40:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
kristi, you're up |
|
12:40:50 |
kristi |
Thanks |
|
12:41:15 |
kristi |
Four weeks ago I gave birth (vaginally)
to an 11 lb, 4 1/2 oz baby |
|
12:41:28 |
kristi |
She got very stuck and it was more than
a frightening experience for me |
|
12:42:13 |
kristi |
I have been feeling a lot of anger the
last few weeks |
