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Mothering Magazine Sponsored Chat with Cynthia Good Mojab, MS, IBCLC, RLC, CATSM is a clinical counselor, international board certified lactation consultant, author, researcher, and speaker. Through her private practice, LifeCircle Counseling and Consulting (LLC) she offers a blend of psychological and lactation services to women and health care providers, in person and by phone.

In this chat, Cynthia will talk about recovering from a difficult or traumatic birth experience.

www.mothering.com
8/23/06

9 mamas in attendance

All Mothering Sponsored chats with Cynthia:
4/27/06  5/25/06  6/29/06  8/23/06  9/28/06  10/26/06

 

12:07:25 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Yes, the CATSM stands for Certified in Acute Traumatic Stress Management. I'm also a member of the American Academy of Experts on Traumatic Stress. I have a book chapter in press called, The impact of traumatic childbirth on health through the undermining of breastfeeding." I have known many women who have struggled to overcome a traumatic childbirth experience--and most of them had a very hard time finding anyone who really understood the legitimacy of what they were coping with."
12:03:33 Webmama_Tina okey dokey, guess its a slow chat today...well then we can have an informal one! :)
12:03:39 Webmama_Tina lets see...the topic today....
12:04:00 Webmama_Tina Cynthia Good Mojab, MS, IBCLC, RLC, CATSM is a clinical counselor, international board certified lactation consultant, author, researcher, and speaker. Through her private practice, LifeCircle Counseling and Consulting (LLC) she offers a blend of psychological and lactation services to women and health care providers, in person and by phone. In this chat, Cynthia will talk about recovering from a difficult or traumatic birth experience.
12:04:08 mom0810 ?
12:04:17 Webmama_Tina cynthia did you want to add anything to that?
12:04:37 Webmama_Tina oh and man do i have traumatic birth experiences for you! :(
12:06:53 Webmama_Tina hello? anyone there? :)
12:07:30 Webmama_Tina ah ha
12:07:31 Webmama_Tina :)
12:07:37 Cynthia_Good_Mojab : )
12:08:20 Webmama_Tina ok mom0810, you're up first!
12:08:34 mom0810 My first son was born in December 2005.  It was a very traumaic experience, in that I was induced  at 38 weeks, in labor for 25 hours (on a monitor that was broken so they kept upping my pitocin) and then ending in a C section after pushing for 2 hours
12:08:48 Webmama_Tina oh, shall we have a show of hands if you've experienced a traumatic birth experience?
12:08:57 Webmama_Tina *raises 2 hands*
12:09:16 pyxiwulf *raises hand*
12:09:24 Webmama_Tina ouch mom0810
12:09:26 Webmama_Tina :(
12:09:33 mom0810 because he was stuck.  Then, he would not bfbecause he had meconium plug that he did not pass until the 2nd day.  They kept him in the NICU for 4 days.  I am having an awful time getting over it, and he is 9 months old!
12:10:42 mom0810 I did not sleep and they were keeping him in the NICU on FORMULA and did not care that I wanted to bf him.  I finally got my doctor to get him discharged, and thank God once he was out of the hospital, he started nursing and is doing fine now.
12:10:56 Cynthia_Good_Mojab That sounds like a very, very difficult experience, mom0810.
12:11:22 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Have you been able to find any support for coping with all of this?
12:11:32 mom0810 The hardest thing was not being able to bring him home.  I had two miscarriages prior to this pregnancy.
12:11:42 mom0810 Well, friends and family.
12:12:18 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Having a newborn in the NICU is such a very hard experience--even if birth itself went well.
12:12:49 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Were you afraid that he would die, after having lost two other babies through miscarriage?
12:13:39 mom0810 The hardest part was that there was no reason for keeping him.  All of the testing was normal and every doctor I have spoken to since said there was no reason for him to stay.  Yes, I was afraid he would die and never come home
12:15:34 mom0810 The nurses were telling me he could have meningitis or Hirschprung's or all of these things.  I left the hospital and just cried like I never have before... wailing.  I thought he would never come home and the nurses were adding to my fear.
12:15:48 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Four days separated from your baby and afraid he would die--and then to have no reason for keeping him. Did you feel powerless against the health care providers who said he needed to be hospitalized?
12:16:57 mom0810 YES!  Every time  I would ask WHY is he still here, they would just pat me on the head and say things like, don't you worry about it, he will come home someday.  The only reason he was released is that I demanded it.  He was fine the minute we got home
12:17:02 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Yes, how frightening to be told of these possibilities and to have to leave him at the hospital...
12:17:25 mom0810 My milk came in as soon as we got him home and he latched on that day.  He would not do this in the hospital.
12:17:49 Webmama_Tina for latecomers--Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
12:17:54 Cynthia_Good_Mojab So you were not offered any real opportunity to make an informed decision about whether he stayed in the NICU or not. Just told it was necessary and that there were no alternatives.
12:19:01 mom0810 The doctor was a neonatologist from Children's and very holier than thou.  She did not offer any justification for her thinking.  The scary thought is, we have EXCELLENT health insurance and the NICU and nursery were empty.  I hate to think the motivation
12:19:14 mom0810 was financial.. but it's hard not to.
12:19:18 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Mother-infant separation interferes with breastfeeding, infant development, maternal development, the stability of multiple bodily processes in infants (e.g., temperature maintenance, normal oxygenation, etc.)....
12:19:59 mom0810 i just feel very violated.
12:20:03 Cynthia_Good_Mojab And, if we can't trust our health care providers, then what?
12:20:12 mom0810 exactly.
12:20:31 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Violated in your trust of your health care providers, your rights as a mother, your baby's needs...?
12:20:44 mom0810 all of the above
12:20:47 Webmama_Tina heck *I* want to write a letter of fury/complaint to them for you now!!!
12:21:11 Webmama_Tina :(   {{{{{hug}}}}}
12:21:12 mom0810 I did write a letter, but no response.
12:21:19 Cynthia_Good_Mojab No response?!
12:21:26 mom0810 Nope.
12:21:34 Webmama_Tina wow that's unacceptable
12:22:12 mom0810 And, I insisted on having ALL of his records and they tried to tell me I could not have them
12:22:28 Webmama_Tina ah hell no
12:22:29 mom0810 made me wait for 2 months to get them
12:22:39 Webmama_Tina sorry..i'm feelin for ya. grrrrrrrr
12:22:58 Webmama_Tina where do you live, if i may ask?
12:22:59 Cynthia_Good_Mojab There's a concept called secondary traumatization." It happens when a mother is traumatized and then she reveals that traumatization in some way and the response to her revelation is completely unsupportive, invalidating, etc. Then a mother feels traumatized all over again."
12:23:21 Webmama_Tina *nodding*
12:23:22 pyxiwulf ?
12:23:37 mom0810 Illinois.  northwest of Chicago.
12:23:41 Cynthia_Good_Mojab It can stop a mother from trying to reaching out again--which can pose real barriers for healing...
12:23:52 Webmama_Tina current chatter:  Webmama_Tina ...upcoming chatter:  pyxiwulf
12:23:56 Webmama_Tina wow
12:24:07 Webmama_Tina i wouldn't think of IL as backward
12:24:26 Webmama_Tina not THAT backward
12:24:45 Webmama_Tina erg
12:25:03 Webmama_Tina that was supposed to be:  current chatter:  mom0810  ...upcoming chatter:  pyxiwulf
12:25:19 mom0810 No, and we live in an affluent area.  I'm 32 years old and college educated.  I just couldn't understand why this doctor did not think I was smart enough to understand what was goin on.
12:25:43 Webmama_Tina :(
12:25:57 mom0810 I'll let the next person go...
12:26:01 Cynthia_Good_Mojab And, it's not like you could easily go doctor shopping having just given birth, having a baby in the NICU, coping with trauma and fear, etc.
12:26:12 Webmama_Tina did you have a question  mom0810 ?
12:26:37 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Thank you for sharing a little of your experience mom0810. That is a lot to be coping with...
12:26:46 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Is there another question?
12:26:55 Webmama_Tina pyxiwulf is up next
12:27:48 pyxiwulf I had wanted an at home birth to avoid interventions, but my husband was scared of that so I comprimised with a mw hospital birth.
12:28:31 Cynthia_Good_Mojab That's a common conflict between partners....
12:28:41 pyxiwulf I ended up attached to the bed with an IV, O2, amnio infusion and internal monitor. I hadn't been off the bed in 20 hours by the time she was born
12:29:00 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Every intervention you didn't want...
12:29:13 pyxiwulf now, all I can think about is having another just to have an at home,n o comrimise this time, but I knwo theis is not reasonble thinking for having another child
12:29:36 pyxiwulf I can't stop it though
12:29:58 Cynthia_Good_Mojab After a difficult or traumatic birth, many women have a strong desire for another child and a redeeming" experience. It can really be a very strong desire."
12:30:54 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Even though their intellect" recognizes that it's not reasonable thinking, the heart is yearning for healing...."
12:31:03 pyxiwulf i feel even worse now, #1 is adopted and i wanted to make sure #2 was bio so that i would experience child birth, but the urge is horrible now
12:31:28 pyxiwulf and I am already being treated for ppd
12:32:07 Cynthia_Good_Mojab So, you had a dream of biological birth without interventions...at home, with support, a good experience...
12:32:44 Cynthia_Good_Mojab It sounds like you are grieving the loss of your dream. Yearning is a part of grieving.
12:33:12 pyxiwulf yes, gerttin
12:33:34 Cynthia_Good_Mojab PPD and grief have many overlapping symptoms. May I ask what kind of treatment for PPD you are engaging in?
12:33:38 pyxiwulf errr...seeing this as i talk about it finally
12:33:47 pyxiwulf 50mg zoloft
12:33:56 pyxiwulf and bfing
12:34:04 pyxiwulf :)
12:34:07 Cynthia_Good_Mojab : )
12:34:41 kristi ?
12:35:25 Cynthia_Good_Mojab While the use of psychotropic medications can be useful for the treatment of PPD, they do nothing to help a woman grieve well. Have you considered talking with a mental health care provider who specializes in issues such as grieving a lost birth experience?
12:36:39 pyxiwulf no, I actually haven't considred that.  I was being treated for PPD preemptively due to my history, but obvioously I have more to mess with my head now
12:36:49 Cynthia_Good_Mojab The loss of a dreamed of or expected birth experience is a legitimate loss--even if it is not widely recognized in many societies.
12:38:25 pyxiwulf thank you for opening my eyes, I didn't realize I was quite this upset over it.
12:39:11 Cynthia_Good_Mojab This could be something to explore. Sometimes new losses (e.g., birth related) stir up old losses that a woman never had the chance to grieve well. Or grief and PPD happen at the same time. Regardless of why grief is happening, it doesn't go away on its own. To grieve well, we need companionship--the chance to feel sad, to speak our loss, to receive support, .... This kind of support can come from friends and family. But sometimes, they just can't give what we need. ICAN groups can be a source of support. Counseling can be a source of support.
12:39:29 Cynthia_Good_Mojab You're welcome. You have every right to be upset.
12:40:16 Cynthia_Good_Mojab Is there another question?
12:40:31 luvshmi ?
12:40:43 Webmama_Tina kristi, you're up
12:40:50 kristi Thanks
12:41:15 kristi Four weeks ago I gave birth (vaginally) to an 11 lb, 4 1/2 oz baby
12:41:28 kristi She got very stuck and it was more than a frightening experience for me
12:42:13 kristi I have been feeling a lot of anger the last few weeks