Mothering Magazine Sponsored Chat with Cynthia Good Mojab, MS, IBCLC, RLC, CATSM is a clinical counselor, international board certified lactation consultant, author, researcher, and speaker. Through her private practice, LifeCircle Counseling and Consulting (LLC) she offers a blend of psychological and lactation services to women and health care providers, in person and by phone.

This chat's topic: "Pioneer Mothering": being the first in generations of your family to breastfeed, co-sleep, or parent without using corporal punishment, etc.

www.mothering.com
10/26/06

14 mamas in attendance

All Mothering Sponsored chats with Cynthia:
4/27/06  5/25/06  6/29/06  8/23/06  9/28/06  10/26/06

 

Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Good morning, everyone! As a clinical counselor and IBCLC, I have a professional interest in how mothers cope with the joys and challenges of pioneer mothering." But, that interest was born from myown experience with doing so many things that had either never been done in my family before or hadn't been done in generations."
Webmama_Tina: Lynn, you're up first
LynnR: My three month old daughter sleeps with us and it works great for me both bonding wise and brest feeding but my husband is concerned that she will never want to leave our bed and that we should get hre used to sleeping in her basinet. Thoughts?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: This is a very common concern.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Co-sleeping is how families throughout generations and across cultures have approached sleep....
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: It facilitates breastfeeding and attachment. It is a component of the original paradigm of nurturing children. Generations ago, if little ones didn't sleep close to their mother, they might have become a predator's midnight snack.
Webmama_Tina: Welcome to this week's Mothering Sponsored chat! This is a moderated chat. Please make sure you read and fully understand the Moderated Chat Instructions before participating in this chat. Instructions can be found here: http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm  ...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not post unless it is your turn to ask a question. If you have a question, please post a single ?" and you'll be added to the queue. Have your question ready when your name is called."
MrMomofTwins: ahhhh, tc ladies
LynnR: I cried all night when he suggested it, we agreed to talk again when she's sleeping through the night.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: So, the ecological niche of little one's is centered around their mother and, as they get older, their family.
Webmama_Tina: how about a show of hands by all of us that have had children sleep with us and then grow to sleep on their own.... *raises hand*
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: However, culturally speaking, co-sleeping can pose huge challenges.
Kamibug_and_Kiddos: *raises hand*
Hippymom: *hand*
renee: raises hand""
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: *raises hand*
LynnR: thanks
2MarchBabes: *raises hand*
Webmama_Tina: there ya go cristin, and that's just a small sampling...they DO move into their own beds eventually. :)
Webmama_Tina: (sorry cynthia, just thought of that, lol)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Mainstream American culture emphasizes independence--and expects it to develop from a very early age. Many people are therefore concerned that co-sleeping is not healthy, because it is not in alignment with the cultural value of independence.
renee: ?""
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Also, lots of us have not seen with our own eyes the inevitable result of co-sleeping: sooner or later the little one is able to sleep on their own.
Webmama_Tina: mamas, throw out your question marks, i'll gather the queue.... :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Tina's poll shows a small sample of that!
Webmama_Tina: current chatter:  LynnR ....upcoming chatters:  renee
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: ?""
LynnR: Ok I think I need to stick to my guns and show my husband how happy our daughter is, she's very calm and secure. Thanks for your thoughts
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: A great book related to sleep issues is Nighttime Parenting." One concept that I think makes sense is that the best sleep arrangements are those that help all members of the family get the most sleep. Since family circumstances vary so much, and everyone has their own personality and temperament, that makes sense to me!"
Webmama_Tina: current chatter:  LynnR ...upcoming chatters:  renee,  CristinLuvsBella-ttc2
Webmama_Tina: oh and the family bed"...awesome book!"
LynnR: thanks i'll look for those books
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You beat me to it, Tina! The Family Bed is a great book. If you're husband likes to read, LynnR, you might consider reading all or part of these books together. He's probably pioneer fathering" too!"
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Do we have another question?
Webmama_Tina: sorry :(
Webmama_Tina: lol
renee: 2 ?s-  how do you feel with the new ibcle policy of having to support the aap policy of no co sleeping but can sleep seperate but nearby"?   It is confusing especially if you deliver in the hospital."
Webmama_Tina: renee you're' up!
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: renee ...upcoming chatters: CristinLuvsBella-ttc2
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Co-sleeping is a controversial issue with major cultural and financial components...
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: The recommendations of the AAP excluded sleep research by James McKenna. Infant crib manufacturers have lobbied against co-sleeping....
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: renee ...upcoming chatters: CristinLuvsBella-ttc2
Webmama_Tina: discovered something...just logging off and back on doesn't reset the features...you have to click refresh and then log back on...otherwise you will still get the logging in and out notices
Webmama_Tina: just FYI for those that are wanting to turn that off too. :)
renee: As a lactation professional how do you advise your moms prior to going into the hospital?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: These statements by LLLI are useful: http://www.llli.org/Release/cosleeping.html and http://www.llli.org/Release/sids.html
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: renee ...upcoming chatters: CristinLuvsBella-ttc2
renee: sadly as of yesterday, the new policy states that IBCLC can not advise against peds. So that left me questioning what to say
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: The tear off sheet by LLLI entitled Safe Sleep" is also very useful."
renee: How do you advise with moms who have been told that it is better to sleep than feed your baby  due to their postpartum depression risks
renee: Our local postpartum depression group is advocating bottle feeding at night for a good night sleep
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I am ethically obligated, by both my personal and professional ethics, to facilitate a mother's informed decision making. The IBLCE Scope of Practice that has just been released is internally and institutionally inconsistent. I have written to both the IBLCE and ILCA expressing my concerns and the double bind that its requirement to not contradict a client's health care providers places on IBCLCs. We cannot facilitate informed decision making and not contradict a client's health care provider, in many circumstances.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: A few days ago I uploaded a new publication to the publications page of my website (www.lifecirclecc.com) called, Mental Health Care for Breastfeeding Mothers with Postpartum Depression." In short, I believe that the treatment of postpartum depression should rarely require the undermining of breastfeeding."
Webmama_Tina: does that answer your questions renee?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Formula fed infants of depressed mothers have higher risks of negative psychological effects of maternal depression than breastfed infants of depressed mothers. When a mother has postpartum depression, the patient" should be considered to be the mother-nursling dyad."
renee: I think so. It is such a hard question. I see so many mothers depressed but it is hard to say which came first :the depresion or the breastfeeding problems
renee: I think you are correct.  Many people forget it is a momandbaby dyad
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Chronic pain (which can be nipple pain from poor positioning and latch, tongue tie, etc.) is a risk factor for PPD.
renee: wow
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Research shows that depression can precede and follow premature weaning. Depression undermines any mother's ability to cope and problem solve. And many women deeply grieve the loss of breastfeeding, though this is not a socially recognized loss.
Webmama_Tina: cristin has the next question
Webmama_Tina: :)
renee: thank you
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're welcome. We could talk for hours on your fantastic questions!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Do we have another question?
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: what would you do for a 2 yr old who swears? i know i have something to do with it, she hears me talking to friends... we don't spank, and time outs haven't worked... ignoring it hasn't worked (she'll just continue to say the word over and over)
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: i just tried giving her a sip of apple cidar vinegar, and i felt like such a horrible mom for it
2MarchBabes: ?
mllrym: ?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: It can really be hard to know what to do about a child's swearing (or any other not at all socially acceptable behavior). I'm sure most if not all of us can relate to really, really not liking something our child does....
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: CristinLuvsBella-ttc2 ...upcoming chatters:  2MarchBabes,  mllrym
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: It sounds like you regret using the apple cider vinegar. Many of us grew up in households where our mouths got washed out with soap if we used bad" language of some kind. So, we're pioneer parenting on how to handle this in a more positive way, too!"
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: exactly! no soap in the mouth here! :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: One approach is to recognize that using language that is objectionable to you and others meets some need for your daughter: the need to choose, the need to experiment, the need to have attention, the need to feel powerful, ..... So, parents can sometimes find another way to meet that need....
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: alright, are you talking about in the moment of the swearing as well?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: One particularly funny--and it can really be effective--way to meet whatever that need is, is to invent a new expression that you pretend is *terrible* language. You start using it anytime you feel the urge to swear--you just stubbed your toe and *something* has got to come out of your mouth!! A great example for a two year old is son of a bumble bee.""
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: lol that's a great idea! :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: A mother can go around saying son of a bumble bee" or your own creative version of it and when she catches her little one saying it, she gives a dramatic response of dismay. : )"
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: one thing i do know is that dh and i need to clean up OUR language first ;)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Many parents can relate to that!
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: thank you so much! :D
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: When I became a mother, I wasn't a huge swearer, but when in enough pain, I was known to say a few choice words. : )
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I converted to God....Bless America." : )"
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: hehehe, my dd won't get kicked out of school for that one!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: It took lots of practice, but it's amazing how easily I say it now. And, yes, my daughter has been known to say it, too. : )
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Good luck!
CristinLuvsBella-ttc2: thank you again!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're welcome!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Do we have another question?
Webmama_Tina: 2-Mar
Webmama_Tina: you're up!
2MarchBabes: pioneer mothering" in my family means alot of questioning of why we are doing things differently, constant explaining is exhasting, I have often thought of making a "letter of intent for our family" to send to our extended family."
Webmama_Tina: current chatter: 2MarchBabes ...upcoming chatters:  mllrym
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're in good company. One of the biggest challenges when pioneer mothering" is regularly having to defend and explain what you're doing."
Webmama_Tina: ugh, i hate that!
2MarchBabes: It would include research to back us up and do some explaining
Webmama_Tina: if they'll even listen
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Culture is like water and we are like fish swimming around in it. It's much easier to see the culturally based beliefs and behaviors of others than of ourselves. Your confused extended family is likely experiencing culture shock" when they interact with your family. What you're doing is different. It doesn't make sense. And, because everyone feels more comfortable with and confident about their own cultural stuff, it can generate real concern about others who are doing something very different."
2MarchBabes: Is it rude?, and do you have any thoughts on things to include?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I've known young mothers who really struggled with their extended family. And, slowly but surely, people started recognizing the results: the children are more compassionate, the children are more content, the children are more excited about life... It's hard to wait for such results, though!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I don't think it's rude at all. Especially when written with a spirit of compassion for the confusion of others. Imagine yourself in their shoes. They probably need their love and care recognized even while they are being presented with new information...
Webmama_Tina: blogging helps...but then its really hard to not bitch and moan about things and remember that people are readign that might be offended, lol
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I wonder if my article, Helping Mothers Create Breastfeeding Allies" would be of use. I talk about nonmanipulative approaches to persuasion: How can I get more breastfeeding support from this particular person in this particular circumstance? The concepts are certainly applicable to many other topics, too."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: That article can be read online from the publications page of my website (go to the older section of my publications) or straight from the LLLI website: http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVDecJan02p123.html
Webmama_Tina: i mean, i refer my inlaws to read my blog...because i have it in my signature...i like that i can sometimes say things to try to explain it in my blog (hope they read it) but then the opposite is a pain...then i have to watch what i say (because they might be reading)...its a dilemma, lol!
Webmama_Tina: mllrym had our last question
2MarchBabes: Thanks for the support
mllrym: This might be totally opposite of what you are about, but I am trying to introduce Milk, Soy Milk etc. to my toddler.  She will only bf.  Do you have any suggestions on how I can slowly wean her away from Breast feeding and get her to drink from a cup?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Sorry, I was disconnected from the chat.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: What have I missed?
Webmama_Tina: lets see
Webmama_Tina: did you get mllrym's question?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: No.
Webmama_Tina: [mllrym] This might be totally opposite of what you are about, but I am trying to introduce Milk, Soy Milk etc. to my toddler. She will only bf. Do you have any suggestions on how I can slowly wean her away from Breast feeding and get her to drink from a cup?
mllrym: She is 17 months old.  I work all week long, so I can only bf at night and in the morning.  On weekends, she is constantly asking to nurse.  I am afraid she just is not getting enough, since I don't bf as much during the week.
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: If you weren't afraid that she's not getting enough, would you want to wean her from breastfeeding?
mllrym: I would like her to start drinking some form of milk, (like she does at daycare during the week).
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: So she drinks other beverages when she's away from you, but wants to breastfeed when she's with you?
mllrym: exactly!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: First I want to acknowledge that it's not easy at all to work outside the home while parenting a toddler...
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: And, regardless of employment, many mothers find it very hard to find ways of meeting their own needs while also meeting the needs of their children.
Webmama_Tina: i think we're overtime now....woops!
Webmama_Tina: cynthia you still typing? :)
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Two of my posts have not made it to the chat
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: This one did!
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: A great book about transitioning from breastfeeding is called How Weaning Happens" by Diane Bengson."
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: I've also addressed some questions related to making changes in breastfeeding in the Ask the Experts section of Mothering magazine's website.
mllrym: Thank you.  I will check it out.
Webmama_Tina: ok cool!
Webmama_Tina: thank you so much cynthia! sorry for the technical difficulties
Webmama_Tina: perhaps teh new upgrade might solve that
Webmama_Tina: nov 2 there will be a major upgrade
Webmama_Tina: gonna be some cool new features added!
Webmama_Tina: going to be exciting
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: The short summary of my two long and missing posts was that finding ways to make the transition from breastfeeding in a way that is positive for mother and child is to think carefully about what you are needing as the mother and what your child is needing. Gradual transitions are always easier than abrupt ones. I wish I had more time but I need to go, too.
Webmama_Tina: i wonder if that's why
Webmama_Tina: i didn't re-mod you when you got booted off and came back
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Who knows!
Webmama_Tina: ok...my kiddos need me badly....
Webmama_Tina: thank you for another great chat cynthia!
Webmama_Tina: would you be interested in doing a holiday theme in nov?
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: You're very welcome!
Webmama_Tina: the holiday hoopla is the entire month of november and i am looking for people to do some holiday themed chats
Webmama_Tina: www.mommychats.com/hoopla
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Maybe! I'm speaking at a breastfeeding and parenting conference here in Oregon in November, so its an extra busy month. Let's talk more off-line....
Cynthia_Good_Mojab: Thank you all for joining in the Chat. Whether you posted a question or listened in, I hope you found some support and ideas for the joys and challenges of pioneer mothering!