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13:02:38 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok today's topic: circumcision/intactivism |
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13:02:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
Marilyn Fayre Milos, RN, is the founder
and director of the National
Organization of Circumcision Information
Resource Centers (NOCIRC) and
coordinator of the International
Symposia on Circumcision, Sexual
Mutilations, and Genital Integrity. Join
Marilyn for a general chat on
circumcision and intactivism. |
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13:03:13 |
Webmama_Tina |
i'm so glad to have you back again
marilyn! always an interesting chat with
you! i hope many of us learn many new
things! :) |
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13:03:24 |
Webmama_Tina |
did you want to add anything to your
intro marilyn? |
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13:04:31 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks for having me again, Tina. I'm
glad to respond to your questions. Let
me begin by saying I'm a Registered
Nurse, the founder and director of
NOCIRC, and I've been trying for the
past 28 years-- from the day I witnessed
a circumcision -- to end circ |
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13:04:56 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
umcision of boys, girls, and the genital
cutting of intersex infants and
children. |
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13:05:41 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Parents have no idea what is done to
infants and children behind closed doors
and, while it's upsetting to learn, the
only way it will stop is for us to talk
about it. |
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13:05:57 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Questions? |
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13:06:34 |
bennersmom |
? |
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13:06:37 |
Webmama_Tina |
if you have a question for marilyn, go
ahead and throw out a single question
mark so that i can track who's next |
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13:06:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
go ahead bennersmom |
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13:07:02 |
bennersmom |
How has the number of circumcisions
(boys) changed in the past 28 years? |
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13:07:11 |
jessm |
? |
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13:07:40 |
bennersmom |
My DS is 7 months old, intact, and I'm
finding that many of my friends have
decided not to circumcise either. Just
wondering about the trend. |
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13:07:43 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
When I began my work (May 1979), the
circumcision rate was 85-95%. Today,
it's about 55% nationally |
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13:07:51 |
bennersmom |
That's great! |
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13:07:58 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
and we're less than 25% in the western
states. |
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13:08:00 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: bennersmom ...upcoming
chatters: jessm |
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13:08:18 |
bennersmom |
I'm east coast~ wonder about that here? |
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13:09:48 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
It's lower on the coasts and is also
dependant upon where you are. Where docs
are pushing it, the rate is higher and,
where they're educated, it goes down.
It's highest in the midwest, always the
slowest to change because they are
isolated. |
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13:09:54 |
phatchristy |
? |
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13:10:28 |
bennersmom |
That makes sense. Thanks. it's nice to
think that when my ds is older there
will be more intact boys than there used
to be.. Thank you. |
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13:10:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
jessm you're up next |
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13:10:46 |
jessm |
My son is circ he had adhesions his ped
said it would pop apart between the ages
of 3-5 and it has not what should we do
if anything we did try steroid cream 2
years ago but nothing.He is 5 now |
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13:10:48 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks to everyone who is helping to
make America whole again! |
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13:10:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: jessm ...upcoming
chatters: phatchristy |
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13:12:11 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Leave his penis alone. What we've found
is that, even with adhesions, they
usually resolve by themselves, the same
as the synechia dissolves when left to
do so naturally. Like you, I have
circumcised sons, the gravest mistake I
made as a mother. |
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13:12:51 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I hope, when you have more sons, you'll
leave their body intact. I now have four
intact grandsons. We learn. |
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13:13:39 |
jessm |
i agree it makes me sad that we have
done it but we did we won't do it again.
so just leave sounds good to me wish i
had in the first |
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13:14:20 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The penis is not done developing until
after puberty, so we don't know what a
boy will have until after he's 18 or so.
Thanks for letting me know you'll
protect any other sons you might have.
We just didn't know. |
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13:14:32 |
Webmama_Tina |
phatchristy you're up! :) |
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13:14:44 |
jessm |
your right thank you |
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13:15:24 |
Webmama_Tina |
yes i have a friend with one circ'd son
and one intact and she has a blinkie on
her blog that says it all.... \one
circ'd from ignorance...one intact by
choice\" and \"when we know better, we
do better\"" |
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13:15:37 |
phatchristy |
OK, it's not letting me copy paste, so I
have to type this out... |
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13:15:47 |
Webmama_Tina |
try CTRL V |
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13:15:51 |
Webmama_Tina |
for paste |
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13:15:52 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
That's a great \blinkie!\"" |
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13:16:09 |
Webmama_Tina |
actually it was 2 blinkies, but she has
them both on her blog... :) |
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13:16:50 |
phatchristy |
OK, not working so I will write it out.
I am wondering what impact the new
penile sensitivity study coming out in
the BJU do you think will have on
physicians here in the US. |
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13:16:52 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I just wrote them down so I won't
forget. Thanks! |
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13:17:12 |
phatchristy |
I wonder what is being done to publicize
and alert the media |
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13:17:53 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Well, first we have to hope that the
media will pick it up. So far, they
haven't, except for Dr. Dean Edell. I
was on his show yesterday, and he's
getting a good response. You can hear
yesterday's show on KGO Radio, click on
the 1pm slot in the archives. |
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13:18:12 |
phatchristy |
Because, when you read the study, it is
pretty apparent that circumcision
removes the most sensitive parts of the
penis. DO you feel this will have an
impact here in the US or do you think
that the media will sweep it under the
rug so to speak. |
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13:18:24 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
We sent out four press releases to more
than 3000 recipients, and I've still not
seen one story! |
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13:18:30 |
phatchristy |
I'll have to check this out |
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13:18:35 |
phatchristy |
That is pretty discouraging |
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13:18:48 |
Quirky1 |
? |
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13:19:29 |
phatchristy |
Do you think it is that the media
doesn't want men to feel bad, or that
the media itself is made up of
circumcised men who don't want to feel
bad. I just have to say it is a very
emotional issue. |
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13:19:30 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
You can read the study at
www.nocirc.org , click on Penile
Sensitivity Study on the right side of
the home page. They may try to sweep it
under the rug, but it will eventually
get out. Basically it says what we
already knew, we just had to prove the
obvious |
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13:19:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh woops, i got the wording wrong...its
\one circumcised out of ignorance...one
intact out of love\" (the blinkie)" |
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13:20:10 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: phatchristy
...upcoming chatters: Quirky1 |
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13:20:12 |
phatchristy |
Is there anything we can do to help
publicize the study? |
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13:20:40 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
What man wants to learn that he was
strapped down and, without analgesia,
had the most sensitive part of his penis
cut off? What mother wants to learn that
her son suffered needlessly? and, what
doctor wants to admit he's got blood on
his hands? |
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13:21:17 |
phatchristy |
But, if people never face it, things
will never change... |
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13:21:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
perhaps those of us with blogs and sites
can start by posting the study on them |
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13:21:39 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, you can help. Tell everyone you
know. Post it everywhere you can.
Thanks! |
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13:21:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: phatchristy
...upcoming chatters: Quirky1 |
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13:22:10 |
phatchristy |
Thank you Marilyn, very nice to \meet
you\"" |
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13:22:11 |
greeneyes0506 |
My DH works in a hospital and has been
putting the study on all the bulletin
boards |
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13:22:28 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The basic findings are: What is left of
the foreskin is more sensitive than the
whole of the glans. Sad, indeed! |
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13:22:29 |
Webmama_Tina |
that's awesome greeneyes! |
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13:22:45 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Please thank him for me!!! |
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13:23:02 |
greeneyes0506 |
The nurses on his floor are still
talking about the HIV study though. They
keep recommending to circ because of it |
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13:23:41 |
Webmama_Tina |
argh |
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13:23:44 |
greeneyes0506 |
He's tried giving them the study that
shoes the Langerhan's cells in the
foreskin combat HIv but tey refuse to
read it |
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13:23:51 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Okay, then just under the Penile
Sensitivity Study on our website is a
link to the Doctors Opposing
Circumcision Statement on circumcision
and AIDS. Have him print that out and
show it to everyone! |
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13:24:27 |
Quirky1 |
I'm just wondering whether you're
publicizing the new sensitivity study to
the Gates Foundation, UNAIDS, and all
the other organizations flogging
universal circ as an HIV \vaccine.\" It
makes the ethical issues even more
problematic." |
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13:24:43 |
greeneyes0506 |
I definitely will, anything I can do to
help save little boys! |
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13:24:58 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
The nurses are simply showing their own
response to truth. Gandhi said, \First
they ignore you, then they laugh at you,
then they fight you, then you win.\"
They're just letting us know where they
are in accepting a new truth." |
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13:25:26 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, we're sending it everywhere! Thanks
for asking! |
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13:25:35 |
waterdog |
? |
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13:25:50 |
Quirky1 |
Have you had any contacts with these
orgs to discuss this path of folly
they're heading down? Esp. Gates
Foundation |
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13:26:28 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: Quirky1 ...upcoming
chatters: waterdog |
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13:26:54 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
We've tried... It's not easy... and we
never hear back... Remember, we're
challenging the dominant paradigm, the
status quo, and the current medical
model... |
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13:27:30 |
Quirky1 |
Yah. There are none so blind as those
who will not see. |
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13:28:01 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
And, 28 years ago, I thought it would be
easy...just a matter of education. I had
no idea what I was in for! |
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13:28:23 |
Webmama_Tina |
you'd think it WOULD be easy...its just
so common sense! |
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13:29:05 |
greeneyes0506 |
It is so culturally ingrained that no
one wants to see the truth. The
pro-circs keep coming up with asinine
excuses. They do not want to admit they
have damaged their children. |
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13:29:21 |
greeneyes0506 |
excuse the spelling nak\ |
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13:29:38 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Yes, and that's why it's so perplexing.
But, circumcision has always been
fear-based. The excuses for it, since
its infiltration in western medicine to
prevent masturbation, are all fear
based. And, what is more scarey than
AIDS, which is why |
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13:29:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
then you have people like a friend of
mine that just do it because that's what
everyone does and to look like
daddy....(stupidist reason in the book,
in my opinion) and then did younger
brother because older brother had it
done...and this is not an unintelligent
woman! so i guess its just not as
common sense as i thought! |
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13:29:48 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
circumcision advocates are so
successful. |
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13:30:20 |
Jwebbal |
I have a question |
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13:30:27 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
If it had been easy to stop, that would
have happened the same day it started! |
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13:30:46 |
Quirky1 |
It's a cultural mass psychosis. |
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13:30:50 |
phatchristy |
It was so culturally ingrained that I
didn't even know that my own husband was
circumcised until I researched it when I
was pregnant. EVERY SINGLE anatomy
drawing I had ever seen was of a
circumcised penis. Anything to deny the
foreskin's existance. |
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13:30:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: Quirky1 ...upcoming
chatters: waterdog |
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13:31:03 |
Webmama_Tina |
jwebbal, i'll add you to the list |
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13:31:11 |
Webmama_Tina |
current chatter: Quirky1 ...upcoming
chatters: waterdog, Jwebbal |
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13:31:12 |
Quirky1 |
OK, I'm done. :D |
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13:31:23 |
phatchristy |
How ridiculous to think that someone
would purposefully cut off genitals for
no reason? |
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13:31:29 |
Quirky1 |
except to say that I (heart) Marilyn!!!! |
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13:31:53 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I liked the \cultural mass psychosis\"
-- thanks for that!" |
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13:32:29 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks, Quirky 1! |
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13:32:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok waterdog |
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13:32:38 |
waterdog |
Where is your website? There are some
people I'd love to show the Doctors
Opposing Circumcision Statement to. |
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13:32:49 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
www.nocirc.org |
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13:32:56 |
waterdog |
Ahh! Thank you! |
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13:33:03 |
greeneyes0506 |
And I want to add that I truly
appreciate all of the intactivist's
work. I am so glad that they reached me
before I gave birth to my son. I didn't
even think of not circumcising until and
intactivist pointed me in the right
direction. |
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13:33:11 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
Thanks for your willingness to pass the
information along! |
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13:33:20 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
I need all the help I can get! |
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13:33:33 |
mamajoy |
? |
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13:33:59 |
waterdog |
The latest discusion I've had with
cutters was the AIDS issue, so I'm happy
to have that info! |
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13:34:23 |
Marilyn Milos, RN |
