|
13:07:28 |
Webmama_Tina |
Today we are please to have Sally and
Candace of Mothering Magazine with us! |
|
13:07:52 |
Webmama_Tina |
Why don't y'all introduce yourselves and
tell us a little about yourselves and
what your topic today is on... |
|
13:08:13 |
Webmama_Tina |
Then I'm thinking you may want to do
some extended information on the subject
before we open for questions? |
|
13:08:22 |
Webmama_Tina |
Does that sound good ladies? |
|
13:08:52 |
Webmama_Tina |
mama chatters, feel free to throw out
your question marks at any time and
angie will keep track of who's to ask
questions in what order.... |
|
13:08:56 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Hello everyone. I am a book and product
designer for Mothering and have read the
magazine for 16 years, even though I am
not a mom myself. I am 58 years old and
found the African trip a real amazing
peek into an ancient culture. |
|
13:09:05 |
Webmama_Tina |
At this time, please keep all side
conversations to private message (PM).
To PM someone, please double click their
name in the user list to the right (in
purple). Clicking their name in the main
window will only paste their name into
the chat. |
|
13:09:37 |
Candace_Walsh |
My name is Candace and I'm a mom of two:
Honorée, 4, and Nathaniel, getting
towards 2. The Pond Foundation
approached Mothering about sending staff
to attend the Equality Now conference on
African activists working within their
communities to end FGM. I am usually one
to try to focus on the more pleasant
things in life (I can be a wuss) but
this has been an incredible journey so
far. |
|
13:10:33 |
Sally_Blakemore |
If, I may, say that I knew of this
practice in Africa but had no idea as to
the death rates and health and humane
issues it brings up. |
|
13:11:30 |
Candace_Walsh |
FGM can range from the removal of the
clitoral hood to removal of the
clitoris, labia, and then fusing the
vulva so that only a tiny hole the size
of a reed for urination and
menstruation. It is performed with a
piece of glass, a bone, or a tin can
lid, unsterilized, without numbing, and
often passes HIV from one girl to
another. |
|
13:12:38 |
kimberella |
? |
|
13:12:44 |
Candace_Walsh |
Many girls die from complications,
infections, and hemorrhage, and it
causes health problems for the duration
of the woman's life, including
difficulty in childbirth. |
|
13:13:12 |
Candace_Walsh |
ask away |
|
13:13:22 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok angie who's up first? |
|
13:13:24 |
MOD_Angie |
upcoming chatter(s): kimberella |
|
13:13:30 |
kimberella |
How prevalent is this practice? How many
girls? |
|
13:13:43 |
Sally_Blakemore |
I read recently that HIV is now thought
to be transmitted through the medical
system in Africa. Dirty and unautoclaved
utensils are spreading the disease as
frequently as sexual transmission. |
|
13:13:54 |
Candace_Walsh |
Up to 6,000 girls a day are at risk of
FGM |
|
13:14:10 |
Candace_Walsh |
It is most widely practiced across the
central belt of Africa. |
|
13:14:13 |
kimberella |
? |
|
13:14:18 |
downundermum |
? |
|
13:14:29 |
Candace_Walsh |
The Sudan is 98% infibulated (the most
severe fgm form) |
|
13:14:44 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Right now is the peak season for girls
fleeing the practice. Safe houses that
are set up for these girls are expecting
150 to arrive in the next month. |
|
13:14:56 |
Candace_Walsh |
Tanzania is, I think, 18% |
|
13:15:31 |
Candace_Walsh |
It also happens in the Western world
within immigrant communities that come
from fgm practicing countries. |
|
13:15:57 |
kimberella |
At what age is the mutilation inflicted?
And why does it peak seasonally? |
|
13:16:39 |
Candace_Walsh |
ranges from infancy to time of marriage.
seasonally because that's when the girls
have breaks from school, which gives
them time to recover. |
|
13:16:39 |
Sally_Blakemore |
I was amazed to find out that not only
in Africa do we see the biggest
percentage but the practice shows up in
Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan and in
America through plastic surgeon's
offices. And this brings up the point of
gender bias worldwide. |
|
13:17:31 |
kimberella |
Wow...what a sick way to experience how
I sepnt my school holiday!"" |
|
13:17:32 |
Sally_Blakemore |
It was initially a rite of passage, but
more and more girls undergo it as young
as birth and as toddlers. |
|
13:18:22 |
Candace_Walsh |
yes, it's terrible. often the passing of
a law against it will mean that toddlers
undergo it so that the parents can do it
with more secrecy. |
|
13:18:33 |
Webmama_Tina |
:crying |
|
13:19:11 |
Candace_Walsh |
It is just horrible. But the good news
is that these grassroots activists are
educating and empowering their
communities to turn away from it. |
|
13:19:17 |
Sally_Blakemore |
I read that in some tribes that the
girls spend 20 months recuperating in a
hut with other girls who have
experienced it at the same time. This
time is spent on little mud mattresses
made to recline on and the girls are
fattened up for healing purposes and
when the emerge they are not at all the
same girls that were sequestered. They
are now ready for marriage. |
|
13:20:29 |
MOD_Angie |
upcoming chatter(s): downundermum |
|
13:20:34 |
Candace_Walsh |
Equality Now sponsors 18 African women
to sensitize their communities to the
harmful aspects of FGM. The families are
often concerned about dowries, but an
educated daughter can give them
financial support for the rest of their
lives. |
|
13:20:50 |
Candace_Walsh |
next question |
|
13:21:18 |
downundermum |
i just wanted to ask why? what do the
believe is achived? |
|
13:21:40 |
Candace_Walsh |
what do they believe is achieved? |
|
13:21:55 |
Sally_Blakemore |
The Western world has not really been
invited to help in this cause until
now. They need our resources because
they have developed a model that works
within their tribes. The world, the
global communication at hand and the
breaking of silence has allowed us, as
Americans to contribute to culural
change without our judgments on the
tribal acivity with the exception of
human rights issues and protection of
children. |
|
13:22:11 |
Candace_Walsh |
Well, some cultures believe that the
clitoris will kill an emerging baby or
make the man's penis fall off during
sex. |
|
13:22:27 |
Candace_Walsh |
There is also a definite feeling that it
keeps women from exploring sex |
|
13:22:56 |
Candace_Walsh |
It is tradition for many, the parents
want their daughters to be beautiful in
the way of their tribe"" |
|
13:23:14 |
Sally_Blakemore |
We spoke with Efua Dorkenoo, a writer
who wrote Cutting the Rose about this.
It is to belong. If you are not
mutilated then you can't take part in
tribal ceremony, marriage and you are
worth nothing in money terms to your
family. |
|
13:23:49 |
Candace_Walsh |
There is an aesthetic component, which
seems strange until we think about the
extent of plastic surgery in this
country, like the vaginal rejuvenation"
ads in the back of New York magazine" |
|
13:24:50 |
Sally_Blakemore |
It is basically a way to control young
women's sexuality, sublimate them in the
heirachy of the tribe and teach them the
place they need to fill as mothers and
wives. The interesting thing is that it
is deadly for them to try and give birth
naturally. The scar tissue tears and
makes a webbing that will not allow the
baby to exit the womb. |
|
13:24:59 |
Candace_Walsh |
Grandmothers, mothers, aunts, and future
mothers in law can really push or force
it because they feel like it should be
passed on. If they think about their
daughters not having it, they have to
question why it happened to them. And
that is opening up a deep psychological
wound. |
|
13:25:40 |
Candace_Walsh |
next question |
|
13:25:40 |
Mod_beckie |
? |
|
13:26:39 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Peer pressure is not a friend, even in
this country. If you look at your own
sexuality and how hard it was in the
beginning to know what is correct and
proper for you, at least we had a
choice...but in saying this I realize
that teen sex, which is perfectly normal
in any culture because of the hormone
changes in the body, are preyed upon by
marketers in our culture. |
|
13:27:02 |
Sally_Blakemore |
The image of the girl is taught through
advertising and movies causing great
harm to these young minds. |
|
13:27:58 |
MOD_Angie |
upcoming chatter(s): Mod_beckie |
|
13:28:05 |
Webmama_Tina |
go for it beck |
|
13:28:07 |
Mod_beckie |
What can we do? I have seen this on
Oprah, and other places, read about it
on Mothering.com, and other then filling
myself with knowledge, I don't feel that
anything has been offered that I can
actually do about it, ya know? I need
something concrete, people to write to,
steps to take, something I can do to
feel like I am doing something to help. |
|
13:28:28 |
Webmama_Tina |
? |
|
13:28:50 |
Candace_Walsh |
Glad you asked. Equalitynow.org funds
the activists. If you donate on their
website or via a check in the mail, the
Pond Foundation will match your gift. |
|
13:28:55 |
Candace_Walsh |
You |
|
13:29:03 |
Candace_Walsh |
sorry, Nathaniel did it |
|
13:30:01 |
Candace_Walsh |
You can also read our Africa blog on
Mothering.com and read more about Dr.
Isatou Tourey, a Gambian activist who is
raising funds to create a rescue center |
|
13:30:03 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Agnes Pareyoi's model is 1) educate, 2)
give a place of refuge to these girls 3)
seek funding from people with resources
to support what the African activists
have in place. This you can do by going
to our website and giving anything
toward the goal of $10 million dollars.
This amount will support 18 countries
efforts. AND Pond Foundation will match
any donation up to $90,000. |
|
13:30:17 |
Webmama_Tina |
www.equalitynow.org |
|
13:30:27 |
Candace_Walsh |
We don't take donations at
mothering.com, but there is a link to
equality now |
|
13:30:38 |
Webmama_Tina |
(add the www and it becomes
clickable)...that will open in a new
window so you don't lose your place in
the chat, mamas :) |
|
13:30:57 |
vegnbaby |
Hi is this the room about FMG? |
|
13:31:10 |
Candace_Walsh |
yes |
|
13:31:27 |
vegnbaby |
Hi |
|
13:31:58 |
Candace_Walsh |
Does that help, Beckie? |
|
13:32:03 |
Sally_Blakemore |
I feel like these women, with no
resources at all have pushed a huge
boulder up to the edge of a mountain
peak. This is how close they are to
their goal of reculturization.
Sensitizing a culture against it's own
toxicity. If you think of helping even 1
girl in 6000 a day, it becomes such a
worthy cause. |
|
13:32:39 |
Candace_Walsh |
One girl is worth so much. I get
discouraged when I think of the scope of
the problem, but the positive changes
are so powerful and tangible. |
|
13:33:22 |
Candace_Walsh |
Personally, learning about the problem
and putting energy and resources toward
helping these girls has given my life
such a deeper meaning and puts
everything in perspective. |
|
13:33:42 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Candace and I met the girls at the
Rescue House in Narok, Kenya. To see
their little innocent faces, shocked by
the age they have become and now knowing
what they have to endure to get beyond
that age and enter the tribe was very
disturbing. |
|
13:34:10 |
Sally_Blakemore |
They spoke and sang to us from their
hearts and it was overwhelming to see
how a human spirit can be destroyed. |
|
13:35:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
mamas, more questions? post your
question marks |
|
13:36:13 |
Webmama_Tina |
sorry i think i missed my turn...i had a
situation in another room to deal
with....k |
|
13:36:29 |
Webmama_Tina |
my question was how is it that FGM is
being allowed to be performed in the US? |
|
13:36:41 |
MOD_Angie |
upcoming chatter(s): Webmama_Tina |
|
13:36:42 |
Candace_Walsh |
It's a secret thing |
|
13:36:47 |
Webmama_Tina |
why are there american doctors
performing it? |
|
13:36:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
they must be of the same culture, i
would assume? |
|
13:37:06 |
Candace_Walsh |
It's classified as child abuse here and
so people do it in secrecy |
|
13:37:17 |
Webmama_Tina |
or is it the same butchering here that
happens back there, in back alleys? |
|
13:37:19 |
Webmama_Tina |
or both |
|
13:37:33 |
Candace_Walsh |
american doctors perform plastic surgery
versions of vaginal cutting, which is
not the same thing, but it is related |
|
13:37:59 |
Candace_Walsh |
the secret stuff is done the way it is
done in the home country |
|
13:38:12 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Under the guise of make your man
happier" women are redefining their
bodies. Tighter vaginas after pregnancy,
bigger breast through silicone, face
lifts...it starts to become apparent how
we in this country of modernism and
techonolgy and science have fallen under
the same knife of self defeat. We need
to be who we are and know who we are and
what our gender really has to offer
outside of sexuality!" |
|
13:38:24 |
Candace_Walsh |
A man in California cut his own
daughter's clitoris off with nail
scissors about 10 years ago |
|
13:38:31 |
Candace_Walsh |
She was 2 |
|
13:38:41 |
Candace_Walsh |
There was another case in Atlanta |
|
13:38:44 |
Webmama_Tina |
*SHUDDER* oh man |
|
13:38:49 |
Candace_Walsh |
Hideous |
|
13:38:52 |
Webmama_Tina |
that makes me want to puke |
|
13:39:07 |
Webmama_Tina |
:sick: |
|
13:39:24 |
Candace_Walsh |
It's so hard to look at this topic
straight on. Sometimes it makes my body
want to go to sleep. So strongly. |
|
13:39:29 |
Sally_Blakemore |
In the 1920s clitorectomy was offered as
a cure for women's
hysteria...masturbation was cured by
removing the source of the urge. |
|
13:40:15 |
Webmama_Tina |
ugh |
|
13:40:17 |
courtney |
? |
|
13:40:36 |
Candace_Walsh |
At least, FGM is not protected in this
country. |
|
13:41:06 |
Mod_beckie |
but male gential mutilation is :( |
|
13:41:15 |
Candace_Walsh |
Yes. That sucks hard. |
|
13:42:02 |
Sally_Blakemore |
I think the women of Africa are setting
the world up for a huge shift in the
power of women. They have moved against
their own culture to protect their baby
girls and they are successfully gaining
politically and in the world arena of
educating and leading. |
|
13:42:13 |
Webmama_Tina |
courtney, you're up! ;) |
|
13:43:34 |
courtney |
I came into the chat late, but can you
speak to FGM in other countries (outside
of Africa and the US)? |
|
13:44:09 |
Candace_Walsh |
It does take place in some parts of the
middle east, and Sally, you mentioned
Malaysia and Indonesia, right? |
|
13:44:44 |
Sally_Blakemore |
This is an ancient animistic rite from
3100 BC. It has nothing to do with
religions and seems to be found in many
cultures where patriarchy is practiced. |
|
13:45:10 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Yes, Malaysia and Indonesia too. |
|
13:46:10 |
ourwiefamily |
? |
|
13:46:12 |
courtney |
Does it seem that male circumcision is
prevalent in those same societies? |
|
13:46:48 |
PattiB |
am i alone? |
|
13:46:49 |
Candace_Walsh |
Yes, it is. And it often happens when
boys approach puberty |
|
13:47:06 |
Candace_Walsh |
Patti, you are not alone! We are here |
|
13:47:08 |
PattiB |
woo hoo, people, I found my way |
|
13:47:30 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Yes, a modified version. Young teen boys
are celebrated in he same way but not
the form we saw in girls. Castration
occurs in girls and in boys a small
clipping and sometimes a splaying of the
penis was practiced. |
|
13:48:01 |
Webmama_Tina |
i patti, we are taking turns |
|
13:48:04 |
Webmama_Tina |
glad you made it! |
|
13:48:11 |
Webmama_Tina |
here's the blurb again.... |
|
13:48:14 |
Webmama_Tina |
Welcome to this week's Mothering
Sponsored chat! This is a moderated
chat. Please make sure you read and
fully understand the Moderated Chat
Instructions before participating in
this chat. Instructions can be found
here:
http://www.mommychats.com/modrules.htm
...A Friendly Reminder: Please do not
post unless it is your turn to ask a
question. If you have a question, please
post a single ?" and you'll be added to
the queue. Have your question ready when
your name is called." |
|
13:48:46 |
Candace_Walsh |
Well, to clarify, the foreskin of the
boy is most usually removed, and with
the girls, their clitoris and labia are
removed and their vaginas are sewn up to
the width of a reed. |
|
13:49:19 |
Sally_Blakemore |
The severity of the removal of flesh was
much greater in the female than the
male. |
|
13:49:39 |
Webmama_Tina |
i need a skin crawl" emoticon" |
|
13:49:43 |
Candace_Walsh |
One of the saddest things, to me, is the
removal of the ability to orgasm. A lot
of sensitizing has to to do with talking
to couples about how fgm has negatively
affected their sexual relationship. |
|
13:49:47 |
Webmama_Tina |
and a shudder" one too" |
|
13:50:05 |
Sally_Blakemore |
It does make you want to cross your legs
alot. |
|
13:50:15 |
PattiB |
? |
|
13:51:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
i don't think we have anyone else in the
queue but patti, do we angie? |
|
13:51:46 |
MOD_Angie |
upcoming chatter(s): ourwiefamily
PattiB |
|
13:51:51 |
Webmama_Tina |
oh i stand corrected |
|
13:51:59 |
Webmama_Tina |
this is why she's the queuekeeper and
not me, LOL! |
|
13:52:02 |
MOD_Angie |
*evil* |
|
13:52:11 |
Webmama_Tina |
;) |
|
13:52:16 |
Candace_Walsh |
great, bring it on ladies :) |
|
13:52:22 |
Webmama_Tina |
go for it karla |
|
13:52:23 |
ourwiefamily |
Since one of the sources for FGM seems
to be the desire for the women to be
practicing sexual purity (not
masturbating, being chaste), is this
being addressed by those fighting for
reform? Are they giving alternatives to
help encourage this sexual purity? |
|
13:53:14 |
Candace_Walsh |
I'm sure they are addressing it, but I
confess ignorance to the deeper details
of that. |
|
13:53:56 |
Candace_Walsh |
I do know that coming of age rituals in
Tanzania and elsewhere that have been
reshaped to be fgm-free still offer all
of the traditional training on how to be
a woman in their cultures |
|
13:54:29 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Yes, education about sex and female
anatomy are being taught. The activists
in Africa have set up an alternate
ritual. The girls are sequestered
together for 2 weeks and they are taught
about reproduction. After their
education about how to be a mom and a
wife there is a ceremony where
traditional necklaces and clothing are
given to the girls and presents. They
come away with knowledge instead of a
huge wound in their lives for ever... |
|
13:55:33 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Isn't it amazing, really, that virginity
in females is such a prized possession".
Who owns virginity in females?" |
|
13:55:38 |
Webmama_Tina |
5 min left in this chat |
|
13:55:41 |
ourwiefamily |
are they being taught about NFP? Or
birth control etc? |
|
13:56:06 |
Candace_Walsh |
I think that's outside the scope of this
discussion. |
|
13:56:31 |
Sally_Blakemore |
To tell you the truth, birth control, as
we know it, is probably not in the mix
since babies are a prized function of
marriage. |
|
13:56:33 |
ourwiefamily |
Perhaps .. though I think the
conservatives will not change away from
FGM unless thos things are addressed in
a way that fits their morality |
|
13:57:16 |
Sally_Blakemore |
I think the sensitizing of men is a
major factor. Most father's didn't even
know what or how this practice was
inflicted on their daughters. |
|
13:57:18 |
Candace_Walsh |
The great thing about the activists is
that they are coming from within their
own communities and can talk to their
people in a way that has all of these
concerns in context of what their values
are. |
|
13:57:34 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Taboos are very tight lipped. Even the
girls didn't know what was coming. |
|
13:57:57 |
Candace_Walsh |
And fathers who have seen films of fgm
taking place have decided, no way is
that happening to my daughter. |
|
13:58:29 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Fundamentalists in any culture seem to
have a stake in their fundamentalism.
They are not open to other points of
view, so you are right in saying this.
However I think every culture recognizes
harm and death and loss of freedom. |
|
13:59:44 |
Webmama_Tina |
one more question in teh queue, angie? |
|
14:00:04 |
Webmama_Tina |
do y'all have time for the last
question? |
|
14:00:12 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Sure do, |
|
14:00:18 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok great! :) |
|
14:00:38 |
Webmama_Tina |
that would be pattib....oh, she's
gone.... |
|
14:00:44 |
Webmama_Tina |
woops |
|
14:00:58 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok well are there any links y'all can
share with us as we wrap this up? |
|
14:01:09 |
Webmama_Tina |
sites to learn more and possibly get
involved? |
|
14:01:17 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Send a few dollars or many dollars to
help our Sistahs in Africaland! Merry
holidays. |
|
14:01:36 |
Webmama_Tina |
i know there was a site that oprah
shared about...i'd have to look it up
though...perhaps y'all already know it |
|
14:01:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
send where sally? |
|
14:01:49 |
Candace_Walsh |
fgmnetwork.org, pactworld.com,
equalitynow.org |
|
14:01:51 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Equalilty Now is the main donation site.
Go there! |
|
14:01:57 |
Webmama_Tina |
www.fgmnetwork.org |
|
14:02:02 |
Webmama_Tina |
www.pactworld.com |
|
14:02:04 |
Candace_Walsh |
send to equality now fgm fund |
|
14:02:07 |
Webmama_Tina |
www.equalitynow.org |
|
14:02:12 |
Webmama_Tina |
gotcha |
|
14:02:18 |
Webmama_Tina |
thank so much! |
|
14:02:24 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Read Efua Dorkenoos book Cutting of the
Rose for starters... |
|
14:02:29 |
kimberella |
You rock, brave ladies! |
|
14:02:33 |
Webmama_Tina |
this was very enlightening, if
disturbing |
|
14:02:39 |
Candace_Walsh |
thank you so much, all of you! Cutting
the Rose, that is :) |
|
14:02:39 |
Webmama_Tina |
its something important to know |
|
14:02:47 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Whoops... |
|
14:03:00 |
Webmama_Tina |
like oprah talks about...its important
that we all educate ourselves on what's
going on in the world |
|
14:03:01 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Thanks Tina |
|
14:03:08 |
Candace_Walsh |
it is very important to be present to
this problem. if these women aren't on
the bus with us, we are on the wrong
bus! |
|
14:03:12 |
Webmama_Tina |
particularly as women we need to know
about the lives of women all over hte
world |
|
14:03:40 |
Webmama_Tina |
wasn't it iman that suffered this
experience as a child? |
|
14:03:49 |
Webmama_Tina |
super model, married to david bowie? |
|
14:03:50 |
Sally_Blakemore |
I am you and you are me and we are we
and we are all together... |
|
14:04:03 |
Webmama_Tina |
i believe that was my first exposure to
it...reading her story in reader's
digetst |
|
14:04:05 |
Webmama_Tina |
digest |
|
14:04:15 |
Webmama_Tina |
well said, sally! |
|
14:04:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
now if we can just save our own little
boys from the knife here at home as
well.... |
|
14:04:52 |
Candace_Walsh |
Exactly. We can do both. |
|
14:05:16 |
Webmama_Tina |
saved one! got one intact baby boy here
in this home! :) |
|
14:05:22 |
Candace_Walsh |
Check out the new circumcision reprint
on sale at the mothering.com shop. It is
the perfect gift for a pregnant friend. |
|
14:05:25 |
Sally_Blakemore |
The battle is being won. Male
Circumcision rate is down to 50%.
Fundamentalism is losing. |
|
14:05:37 |
Candace_Walsh |
Isn't it 40 percent? |
|
14:05:42 |
Webmama_Tina |
yup i'm glad to be in california where
noncirc is the majority |
|
14:05:51 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Hopefully your update is correct. |
|
14:05:53 |
Webmama_Tina |
i believe california is 60/40 uncirc/circ |
|
14:06:07 |
Webmama_Tina |
i believe its 50% nationwide, but some
states its lower... |
|
14:06:14 |
Sally_Blakemore |
national average around 50% Kimbersays. |
|
14:06:14 |
Webmama_Tina |
that's my understanding |
|
14:06:25 |
Webmama_Tina |
yeah in ca its lower |
|
14:06:31 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Snip no mo...in 2006 |
|
14:06:35 |
Webmama_Tina |
:) |
|
14:06:41 |
Candace_Walsh |
ok, we have to go meet with our friend
at the Pond Foundation so we can do some
more strategizing. Thank you so much. I
stand corrected, thank you so much |
|
14:07:00 |
Webmama_Tina |
i got a copy of the penn and teller dvd
on the subject...anyone want to know
where to get a free copy? |
|
14:07:03 |
Webmama_Tina |
i can look it up |
|
14:07:06 |
Sally_Blakemore |
Bye women. You are the best! |
|
14:07:10 |
kimberella |
still, yay for that progress, let's
protect genital integrity for all
babies! |
|
14:07:12 |
Webmama_Tina |
thank you candace!!! |
|
14:07:32 |
katoomgirl |
yes, i'd like a copy tina |
|
14:08:01 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok lemme find my info |
|
14:08:05 |
katoomgirl |
thanks! |
|
14:09:27 |
Webmama_Tina |
People can write to John Geisheker,
Esq., legal counsel for Doctors Opposing
Circumcision, at <kiwijohn2@cs.com> for
a free DVD of the show. Or, for a video
tape, they can write to William Stowell
<StopCircVA@aol.com> and ask. The
videotapes are $5 each, to cover the
tape and postage. |
|
14:09:43 |
Webmama_Tina |
dvd's are free |
|
14:09:52 |
Webmama_Tina |
just ask for the penn and teller show on
circumcision |
|
14:09:56 |
Webmama_Tina |
its REALLY good! |
|
14:10:30 |
Webmama_Tina |
ok got a squirmy (intact) baby boy that
needs rocking/nursing to sleep... |
