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18:57:35 |
christymomof2 |
Hey Claudia!! |
|
18:57:38 |
christymomof2 |
How are you? |
|
18:58:01 |
claudia |
Hey Christy! |
|
18:58:05 |
christymomof2 |
Heya!!! |
|
18:58:11 |
claudia |
How are doing? |
|
18:58:24 |
christymomof2 |
Doing great thanks! You?> |
|
18:58:36 |
claudia |
Fine, thanks. |
|
18:59:27 |
christymomof2 |
Forgive me for getting everyone mixed
up, but are you pg or pp? |
|
19:00:15 |
claudia |
To the others, I am Claudia Villeneuve
with ICAN, International Cesarean
Awareness Network. I am here to answer
any questions you have on cesareans and
VBAC. No, I am not pregnant. My HBAC
baby is 2 and a half, though. |
|
19:00:31 |
christymomof2 |
Awesome! |
|
19:01:19 |
christymomof2 |
Are you heading this up today? Do you
know if Tonya will join us? Or maybe you
can help me |
|
19:02:16 |
claudia |
Tonya should be coming up soon. Ask
away. |
|
19:03:00 |
christymomof2 |
I want to stir things up where I live. I
live in the high desert of So. Cal. It's
like its own little world up here, and
c/s rates are HIGH, with only ONE SINGLE
OB willing to do VBACs |
|
19:03:13 |
claudia |
Only one? |
|
19:03:18 |
christymomof2 |
He turned me down ( Which I'll forever
be grateful for...instead I had a
beautiful homebirth ) |
|
19:03:22 |
christymomof2 |
Yes...only one. |
|
19:03:39 |
claudia |
Can family doctors (GPs) do VBACs there? |
|
19:03:43 |
christymomof2 |
Nope |
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19:04:08 |
christymomof2 |
There are only 3 hosp. up here...and the
one I had my c/s at is the only one
allowing" vbacs, IF the dr will do it" |
|
19:04:22 |
claudia |
How many midwives are there? |
|
19:04:34 |
christymomof2 |
We have a midwifery practice associated
with the hospital, but they can't do
Vbacs |
|
19:04:45 |
christymomof2 |
There are no homebirth midwives up here.
Mine came from 2.5 hours away |
|
19:05:25 |
claudia |
Hospital midwives are not allowed to do
VBAC? |
|
19:05:31 |
christymomof2 |
Nope. |
|
19:05:57 |
christymomof2 |
This isn't just in my state...but
country wide for the most part |
|
19:06:20 |
claudia |
We have a hospital here with midwives on
staff but the reason they don't do VBACs
is because there is no OB on call, or an
OR available 24 hours a day. Is that the
same there? |
|
19:07:01 |
christymomof2 |
The OR is available 24 hours a day. I
don't see how a hospital could NOT have
an OR only avail. during certain hours |
|
19:07:27 |
christymomof2 |
They can't do them because they can't do
an emerg. c/s should the need
arise...and dr's flat out don't want to
wait around with a vbacing mom |
|
19:08:15 |
christymomof2 |
I was turned down because I had single
layer of suturing on my uterus instead
of two. But then later found out a newer
OB up here asked him why he still does 2
layers, and he just shrugged and said
out of habit"." |
|
19:08:22 |
christymomof2 |
So it had nothing to do with anything. |
|
19:09:06 |
claudia |
If the OR is available 24 hours a day,
there must be a surgeon on call,
therefore press them to accept VBAC. The
midwives can watch the birth and then
call the OB if necessary. If there was a
car accident they would come, wouldn't
they? |
|
19:09:09 |
christymomof2 |
And don't get me wrong...I wish moms
would choose to homebirth. But I
understand the fear along with that in a
VBAC. So I wish there were more options
up here readily available ( most moms
don't know they can fight ) |
|
19:09:24 |
christymomof2 |
Exactly |
|
19:09:58 |
christymomof2 |
But they fed me that the OB him/herself
has to be there for the duration of
labor |
|
19:10:15 |
claudia |
Unless ACOG specifically says that the
surgeon must be in the hospital at ALL
times, which is dumb. But maybe that is
how the whole VBAC ban spread around. |
|
19:10:21 |
christymomof2 |
so it boils down to not *wanting* to do
it. |
|
19:10:29 |
claudia |
Laziness. |
|
19:10:32 |
christymomof2 |
Yes, that's exactly why |
|
19:11:04 |
christymomof2 |
ACOG said surgeon there, anesth. there
24 hours...but it was a RECOMMENDATION,
not regulation |
|
19:11:18 |
claudia |
If ACOG allowed them to leave the
hospital and come back for the
emeregency cesarean, maybe that could
work |
|
19:11:43 |
claudia |
A recommendation is not a regulation,
you are right. |
|
19:11:44 |
christymomof2 |
I don't know. But I want to know how to
begin all of this. Where to start. |
|
19:11:57 |
christymomof2 |
I want to stir the pot here. |
|
19:12:08 |
claudia |
First thing is to speak/write a letter
to the hospital. Then... |
|
19:12:16 |
claudia |
You write a second letter... |
|
19:13:21 |
claudia |
Then a third one...and if they do not
reply. Write a fourth, but this time cc
the medicare representative in your
area. Medicare has rules for equal
access to health care/ |
|
19:14:16 |
claudia |
Medicare has to pay for their laziness
plus they have to stand by the patient
when medical care (a vaginal birth) is
refused. |
|
19:14:45 |
christymomof2 |
That's the other part of my
frustration...and that of many VBAC/homebirth
moms. I had state-paid insurance. If I
wanted to VBAC, I was going to have to
drive over an hour to the hosp. that
would do it. And my midwife cannot
charge ins., so I'm paying her |
|
19:14:48 |
christymomof2 |
out of pocket |
|
19:15:48 |
claudia |
Let's talk nearest hospital VBAC first.
If Medicare does not reply, send them a
second letter this time cc your local
politician or your representative in the
Senate or however that works in the USA. |
|
19:16:02 |
christymomof2 |
The limitations on VBAC moms are
aggrivating to say the least. I would
have 100% ended up with another c/s had
I stayed with my OB that I found that
was vbac-friendly"" |
|
19:16:25 |
christymomof2 |
I'm going to! I want to challenge all of
this. It's ridiculous |
|
19:16:41 |
claudia |
Pick a goal, VBAC in the hospital with
midwives is a good start. Or VBAC
reaccepted in the other hospital full of
OBs and ORs. |
|
19:17:20 |
christymomof2 |
Well, that's where the snafoo comes in.
VBAC *is* accepted...but you have to
find the OB to do it. |
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19:17:37 |
christymomof2 |
And I was turned down, although a
perfect candidate" ( I hate that word )" |
|
19:17:50 |
claudia |
VBAC accepted by one OB is an effective
VBAC ban, sell it that way. |
|
19:18:06 |
christymomof2 |
Good point |
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19:18:54 |
claudia |
Under the freedom of information act,
the VBAC rates in that hospital should
be available. It will show that only 3
out of 300 cesarean moms have a VBAC.
Ouch. |
|
19:19:16 |
christymomof2 |
I was outraged one night going into the
local hospital because of a very sharp
pain in my side when 32 weeks pg., and
while there there was a lady who was
brought in to be induced SIMPLY because
she was close" to her due date, and
lived an hour away. The" |
|
19:19:50 |
christymomof2 |
Dr wanted her to deliver before he went
on vacation. The induction wasn't
working and they gave her until it had
been 32 hours and they were going to do
a c/s |
|
19:20:12 |
christymomof2 |
I talked to this lady's mom...and she
was heartbroken for her daughter to have
a c/s with her first child |
|
19:20:58 |
christymomof2 |
So I can find out what my hosp. VBAC
rate is? Can I find out what their c/s
rate is? |
|
19:22:41 |
claudia |
Poor lady, a 32 hour limit is sad.
Inductions fail about 60 percent of the
time. yes, you can find out, ask
straight out or have the hospital refer
you to their statistics department or
records. |
|
19:23:20 |
claudia |
It might not work, so find out through
the state health department. They should
have it at least for 2004. |
|
19:23:49 |
christymomof2 |
AWESOME! Yes...I know. I told the lady's
mom that if she could, have her daughter
refuse a c/s. Get out of there. I don't
know what ended up happening...but prob.
another c/s |
|
19:23:55 |
christymomof2 |
Okay...I'll have to look into that. |
|
19:24:16 |
claudia |
The ICAN website has great help
http://www.ican-online.org/advocacy/index.php
|
|
19:25:08 |
claudia |
There are also white papers on VBAC bans
and the rights of the consumer
http://www.ican-online.org/resources/white_papers/index.php
|
|
19:25:28 |
christymomof2 |
GREAT! |
|
19:25:52 |
claudia |
This woman having her induction will not
be allowed to leave the hospital once
the induction starts. |
|
19:26:35 |
christymomof2 |
If she was better informed she could
though. You have the right to walk out
AMA. They cannot force you to stay. She
also could have outright refused the
induction. |
|
19:26:42 |
christymomof2 |
Sadly, too many people are uninformed |
|
19:27:26 |
claudia |
She will be in a drugged state and
medical observation will be the
argument. If the induction fails 32
hours wont make a difference. I wish to
this day that I had refused the
induction. Or that at least I had
refused to continue with the induction
charade |
|
19:27:57 |
claudia |
Or at least to have said, this isn't
working. Turn it all off I want to go
home and be back tomorrow for another
induction try. |
|
19:29:07 |
claudia |
Walking out of the hospital is possible,
but remember that lady in Virginia (I
think) in 2004. |
|
19:29:16 |
christymomof2 |
No..she wasn't in a drugged state. It
wasn't working at all. No regular ctx,
no pain. She walked along with the
pitocin and nada. Baby wasn't ready. |
|
19:29:40 |
christymomof2 |
No, I don't know of that situation |
|
19:30:31 |
claudia |
She walked out of the hospital (no
treatments had been given yet). She gave
birth naturally in another hospital a
few hours later. The first hospital had
a court order and they were going to
detain her, but she slipped out before
security found her. |
|
19:30:58 |
claudia |
Drugged state, oxytocin is a drug. A
very powerful one. |
|
19:32:08 |
claudia |
It is always best to avoid even getting
an IV, because that means medical
treatments have started. Once they break
your waters, that's game over. The clock
starts. |
|
19:32:31 |
christymomof2 |
Exactly. But there are soooo many moms
who just want it over with"" |
|
19:33:03 |
claudia |
That is the other issue. But still,
should not doctors warn women about the
risks of induction. They don't. |
|
19:33:16 |
christymomof2 |
Exactly. |
|
19:33:57 |
claudia |
And the risks of epidurals are not given
either, nor are the risks of cesareans.
The risks of not doing anything (natural
birth), those are listed in great
detail. |
|
19:34:31 |
claudia |
Hi Dawn! |
|
19:34:34 |
christymomof2 |
No they're not. No one told me how high
the risk was for severe respiratory
distress after a c/s...my son ended up
spending 9 days in the NICU because of
it |
|
19:35:01 |
christymomof2 |
Didn't see him until the day after he
was born...couldn't hold him until day
4, breastfeed until day 5 |
|
19:35:07 |
christymomof2 |
Hi Dawn! |
|
19:35:33 |
claudia |
Exactly. Postpartum nurses complain that
women figured the cesarean meant no pain
at all. And then the women are shocked
at the amount of pain after a cesarean. |
|
19:35:51 |
claudia |
Poor baby, I bet he missed you. |
|
19:35:57 |
christymomof2 |
I was a wreck |
|
19:36:10 |
claudia |
I imagine. |
|
19:36:29 |
christymomof2 |
To be honest, my recovery was amazing
after my c/s. I didn't have a bad
experience with the surgery itself |
|
19:36:40 |
claudia |
Wet lung is a consequence of cesareans
on babies. I found that out 6 years
after. |
|
19:37:05 |
christymomof2 |
But what was taken away from the
experience and my son and our bonding
was irreplaceable |
|
19:37:34 |
christymomof2 |
Yep...I found out 2 DAYS later as they
were intubating my son. The
neonatologist told us it was COMMON in
c/s babies |
|
19:37:58 |
claudia |
My sugery was excellent too. The thing
that got me was their silence during and
after the birth. They did not even
acknowledge the fact that I had a son.
That is when the unconcious plan for an
HBAC started. |
|
19:38:14 |
christymomof2 |
But the OB didn't bother telling me that
while he was scaring me about size and
complications with deliverying *BIG*
babies ( my son was only 8.8lbs ) |
|
19:38:23 |
claudia |
Wet lung is common? I bet that is not in
the brochure. |
|
19:38:31 |
christymomof2 |
Ahhhh...no, I can say the staff was
wonderful with me. |
|
19:39:00 |
christymomof2 |
Yes, VERY because the lungs are not
squeezed out in a surgical birth as in a
vaginal |
|
19:39:19 |
claudia |
My staff was nice too. They gave me a
bit of a hard time when I stole that
toast from the nurses station after 48
hours without food. |
|
19:39:31 |
christymomof2 |
rofl |
|
19:39:52 |
claudia |
It gave me gas pain, but who cares when
you have surgery pain already. |
|
19:39:55 |
