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Chat with Positive Discipline Facilitator & Associate, Kelly
of Jane Nelsen's positive discipline techniques and books
( www.positivediscipline.com )
3/2/05

20 mamas in attendance

Books by Jane Nelsen:

21:34:37 PDMod_Kelly Hi Moms!
21:34:39 tricia hi
21:34:46 firstbabybelly hi
21:34:56 tricia ok... so i gotta question.. who am i directing that too
21:34:57 tricia lol
21:35:01 Webmama_Tina go for it tricia, you're the first question tonite...this is casual chat so just throw out your questions
21:35:08 tricia aight
21:35:09 Webmama_Tina kelly is the positive discipline expert
21:35:12 Webmama_Tina trained and all that
21:35:15 tricia so umm ok...
21:35:19 tricia wow im all nervous
21:35:19 tricia lol
21:35:20 Webmama_Tina maybe you want to give an intro for these ladies kelly?
21:35:23 PDMod_Kelly Anyone want to chat about Positive Discipline?
21:35:28 tricia yup
21:35:31 tricia cuz im bad at it
21:35:49 PDMod_Kelly Well, if it will make you feel any better, I'm stressed right now because my kids were fighting earlier.
21:36:22 PDMod_Kelly I'm Kelly, Positive Discipline Associate.  I teach Positive Discipline (PD) classes.
21:36:24 tricia ok.. well i think mine is still awake after me tellin her to go to bed almost 2 hrs ago
21:36:43 PDMod_Kelly I have two kids --a son who is 12 and a dtr. who is 9 yo.
21:36:48 tricia ouch
21:37:07 PDMod_Kelly Is anyone here familiar with Positive Discipline?
21:37:19 annettemarie The books?
21:37:22 tricia hmmmmm is that the same as gentle?
21:37:51 PDMod_Kelly Yes, the books.  Or the philosophy in the books. --the Jane Nelsen version of Positive Discipline.
21:38:30 PDMod_Kelly Most of it would seem gentle, but some people don't think all of it is gentle.
21:38:32 annettemarie I like the books, but disagree on some of the independence" points"
21:38:45 tricia ok so what is the thought behind PD?
21:38:55 PDMod_Kelly Yes, that is what I was thinking about  --the independence parts
21:39:05 annettemarie No co-sleeping, right?
21:39:34 PDMod_Kelly PD is based on the work of Alfred Adler --psychologist of the 19th century  of sometime way back when.  LOL!
21:39:57 PDMod_Kelly I need to check up on the dates.
21:40:11 PDMod_Kelly Adler believed that we all have the primary need to belong" in our setting."
21:40:41 PDMod_Kelly We want to feel that we belong and that we are significant or have meaning to the people in our environment.
21:41:25 PDMod_Kelly Adler believed that the best/healthiest way to achieve belonging and significance is to contribute in meaningful ways to our environment.
21:41:43 PDMod_Kelly His view is that when children are misbehaving, it is because they have a MISTAKEN idea of how to belong.
21:42:07 PDMod_Kelly When children are misbehaving, they are usually using one of the four MISTAKEN GOALS to try to belong.
21:42:12 PDMod_Kelly The four mistaken goals are
21:42:16 PDMod_Kelly UNDUE ATTENTION
21:42:19 PDMod_Kelly POWER
21:42:22 PDMod_Kelly REVENGE
21:42:28 PDMod_Kelly ASSUMED INADEQUACY
21:42:47 annettemarie I have been having situations with my oldest son lately
21:42:49 annettemarie He is six
21:43:02 PDMod_Kelly So a child might misbehave to get undue attention because he/she believes that in order to belong, they must have constant attention.
21:43:22 PDMod_Kelly What's going on with your son AnnetteMarie?
21:43:42 annettemarie Things escalate and he hits me and throws things
21:43:55 annettemarie He is very intense and verbal
21:44:06 annettemarie Tonight when I sent him up to go to bed
21:44:11 annettemarie He had a major tantrum
21:44:14 PDMod_Kelly Have you worked on any calming down skills with him?
21:44:19 annettemarie And nothing seems to work when he gets like this
21:44:27 annettemarie We have done some deep breathing and some yoga
21:44:34 PDMod_Kelly That sounds good!
21:44:35 annettemarie He linkes the volcano pose- LOL!
21:44:49 PDMod_Kelly Have you talked to him about the tantrums at a time when he is calm?
21:44:52 annettemarie But when we are in the moment we are both too out of control to remember, it seems
21:44:57 annettemarie Yep, we've done that
21:45:02 PDMod_Kelly Yes, you both have flipped your lid"."
21:45:17 annettemarie Definitely
21:45:30 PDMod_Kelly It's an expression we use describing how the thinking part of the brain just flips up" and detaches from the rest of the brain."
21:45:30 tricia definately been there.. especially latey
21:45:31 annettemarie Punishments/consequences don't seem to have any effect
21:45:42 annettemarie And I make bigger and bigger threats
21:45:47 annettemarie And he gets angrier and angrier
21:46:08 PDMod_Kelly When we have flipped our lids, we can't access our higher level thinking skills and we just REACT out of emotion or safety.
21:46:26 annettemarie That's a good definition
21:46:26 PDMod_Kelly The first step is that the parent and the child have to put their lids" back on."
21:46:42 PDMod_Kelly So you have to work on calming down skills with him.
21:47:01 PDMod_Kelly So when you are both calm, sit down and make a list of some ideas that might help each of you calm down.  You can each have your own list.
21:47:08 Webmama_Tina oh that is a very good explanation...i do that way more than i should, ugh
21:47:16 PDMod_Kelly He can draw pictures to make his list if he wants.
21:47:19 annettemarie That's a good idea
21:47:23 annettemarie We can try it tomorrow
21:47:34 annettemarie If I recant my threat not to let him out of his room all day
21:47:43 PDMod_Kelly Then post the lists somewhere in a good place that is near where each person would want to calm down.
21:48:12 PDMod_Kelly After you've made the list, then do a role play with him.  Pretend you are both angry and you are going to PRACTICE going to your area to calm down.
21:48:24 PDMod_Kelly Practice as often as possible for a few weeks.
21:48:41 PDMod_Kelly The practice will help you remember what to do when the two of you Flip your lids.""
21:48:52 annettemarie OK
21:48:57 PDMod_Kelly It will be difficult at first, but with more practice it will get easier.
21:49:26 PDMod_Kelly Make sure that your son knows that both of you need to first calm down before you will try to solve the problem. It may take a while for both of you to calm down.
21:49:51 PDMod_Kelly Some ideas for calming down:   hitting a pillow, lying down, deep breathing, hammering  a plastic hammering toy
21:50:12 annettemarie How can I help him understand we just need to not be near each other at that point?
21:50:25 PDMod_Kelly listening to soft or classical music.  My neighbors keep a portable CD player loaded with classical music for just this purpose.
21:50:49 PDMod_Kelly The practice will help.  You each need to plan a spot to use to calm down.  Bedrooms with the door closed are an obvious choice.
21:51:01 annettemarie But not with two other little ones...
21:51:04 PDMod_Kelly BUT sometimes my kids would come and kick or pound on the door when I was trying to calm down.
21:51:26 PDMod_Kelly I have to share another idea with you.
21:51:35 annettemarie Great
21:51:51 PDMod_Kelly When there is a time when your son has flipped his lid, but your haven't and you are feeling pretty calm...............
21:52:16 PDMod_Kelly Go WITH HIM to calm down.  Grab a pillow and softly hand it to him.  He will probably throw it right back at you.
21:52:32 PDMod_Kelly Toss it to him gently again and again and again until he is calm or laughing, etc.
21:52:49 PDMod_Kelly I have done this with each of my children and the response was AMAZING!!!!!
21:53:03 annettemarie Sounds good
21:53:29 PDMod_Kelly BOTH of them came and found me in the house about 15 minutes later and said, Mom, I love you so much" out of the blue after I tossed the pillows with them to help them calm down."
21:54:02 PDMod_Kelly Only do this if you can do it without flipping your lid.  When you can stay calm it sends such a nice message that you will stay with them and help them calm down.
21:54:13 PDMod_Kelly And that you accept them even when they are angry.
21:54:21 annettemarie OK
21:54:34 PDMod_Kelly I would love to see how some other kids respond to this.
21:54:48 PDMod_Kelly Tina, is anyone cued up for a ?
21:55:11 Webmama_Tina sorry, i'm multitasking
21:55:22 PDMod_Kelly That's okay.  Itt's only been a sec.
21:55:23 Webmama_Tina i would say anyone with a question just throw them out there
21:55:24 Webmama_Tina :)
21:55:50 PDMod_Kelly I can just talk for sec to get things started.
21:55:55 Webmama_Tina ok
21:55:59 PDMod_Kelly I taught a class yesterday on power struggles.
21:56:15 Webmama_Tina