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The Emotional Lives of Children #12

Hostess Sarah Edmonds is a licensed psychologist in Arizona who's worked with mothers and pre-school aged children in a behaviorally oriented intervention program and in private practice. She is now staying at home with her baby.

Guest Speakers for this chat: Kimberly Medlin http://poisonevercure.150m.com/cover.htm  and Wendy Callahan http://www.vaccinetruth.org 

5/2/05

16 mamas in attendance

12:03:48 Mod_SarahPhD OFFICIAL START OF EMOTIONAL LIVES OF CHILDREN CHAT
12:04:00 lovthatlea k.....I'm Wendy of www.vaccinetruth.com
12:04:14 Mod_SarahPhD Wendy, do you want to say more?
12:04:27 Mod_SarahPhD Like where you are based?
12:04:46 lovthatlea I could go on forever about vaccines should you wish! :)
12:05:06 lovthatlea I am in Florida, gainesville area
12:05:29 shannon562 hello
12:05:35 Mod_SarahPhD Do you just have your website, or what else do you do in terms of vaccine awareness?
12:05:50 Mod_SarahPhD Hi Shannon, we are having introductions of our guests
12:06:34 lovthatlea I give talks about vaccines at our local college and anyone that stands within a certain radius of me gets a vaccine lecture!
12:06:48 Mod_SarahPhD :)
12:07:00 Mod_SarahPhD Great, Kimberley, do you want to introduce yourself?
12:07:06 kimmedlin Yes....
12:07:09 lovthatlea I also hand out flyers at the local health dept until I am thrown out
12:07:09 vaclib Sara, just logged on. This is Ingri/vaclib. Hi everyone!
12:07:17 kimmedlin Kimberley Medlin here.....
12:07:18 Mod_SarahPhD Hi!
12:07:25 lovthatlea Hi!
12:07:42 kimmedlin I am the Director for the Vaclib (Arizona)
12:07:55 kimmedlin my website is www.vaccinationsandSIDS.com
12:08:05 Mod_SarahPhD Do you want to say more?
12:08:16 kimmedlin I worked side-by-side on the Janet Burton Case
12:08:24 vaclib I am the director of VacLib national and co-director of our Idaho chapter. www.vaccinetruth.com
12:08:46 Mod_SarahPhD VacLib is Ingri
12:09:07 Mod_SarahPhD Kimberely, do you want to say briefly what the janet burton case was
12:09:14 kimmedlin Yes....
12:10:01 kimmedlin The father of Janet's two children managed to get the Arizona court to order vaccinations
12:10:02 vaclib If anyone wants to know more about the Janet Burton case, they can do a simple google search and Kimberly's website and ours will come up with the entire story of forced vaccination at the hands of the state of Arizona
12:10:37 kimmedlin The youngest of the two has now developed asthma and his pupillary reflex has been damaged.
12:11:02 kimmedlin Currently, the case isat a rest""
12:11:05 Mod_SarahPhD The parents were divorced?
12:11:16 kimmedlin Yes, they were divorced
12:11:20 lovthatlea they were unvaxxed until 6 right?
12:11:26 kimmedlin yes
12:11:44 Mod_SarahPhD I see we are getting more chatters..
12:11:47 lovthatlea So it is easy to see the damage in a healthy kid
12:12:07 Mod_SarahPhD Let's finish with the introductions so we can start with questions
12:12:21 Mod_SarahPhD Ingri, would you like to say anything more about yourself?
12:13:14 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn Hi i have done that...
12:13:32 Mod_SarahPhD Hi Swathi
12:13:36 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn Hi
12:13:37 vaclib I am a new grandma and come from a non-vaccinating, non-doctoring family. We started VacLib due to the incredible pressure from the state and doctors to force this form of medical experimentation on our children.
12:14:07 Mod_SarahPhD When did you start it?
12:14:41 vaclib In 1998 with the Idaho chapter. In 2000 we went national and got our website up.
12:15:25 Mod_SarahPhD Let's start with questions.  If you have a question, type a ?" in an I will start a queue."
12:16:06 Mod_SarahPhD Do any of you have questions for the guests?
12:16:25 dddevane There are other non-vac groups out there.  What did you think was missing in that you felt the need to start a different non-vac org?
12:17:16 dddevane I'm sorry for not following the format :banghead
12:17:27 kimmedlin Unlike many groups, VacLib is not about being politically correct
12:17:29 Mod_SarahPhD That's okay, you can be first!
12:17:38 lovthatlea So many of them don't tell the whole truth...like some just want the mercury out of vaccines...there is so much more to them
12:18:04 kimmedlin VacLib is against vaccines entirely
12:18:13 vaclib I am not aware of any other non-vax groups. There are pro-choice and informed choice groups but there was nothing in our state at the time. In 2000, when we had 70 members in our state, we attempted to join NVIC and was told that they would not accept us as an affiliated chapter due to our anti-vax stance
12:18:30 Mod_SarahPhD Wow!
12:18:50 lovthatlea a lot of the others are bigpharma backed as well
12:19:08 dddevane ? So are you saying the the non-vax groups are not REALLY non-vax?
12:19:24 kimmedlin Most are not
12:19:33 Mod_SarahPhD Can you say which ones ar big pharma backed?
12:19:57 kimmedlin suspicion rests on NVIC
12:20:05 Mod_SarahPhD Wow!
12:20:10 lovthatlea some of them....haven't you seen the whole safer vaccine" kick they are on? As if there is a safe vaccine"
12:20:41 Mod_SarahPhD Can yo u expalin why there is no such thing as a safe vaccine?
12:20:52 vaclib I should clarify, we were members of NVIC -- they just didn't want us to be an NVIC chapter... Yes, the other groups out there will not profess to be anti-vax since they depend on funding and a 501(c)3 non-profit status. We are a totally volunteer network  with no corporate funding.
12:21:27 lovthatlea Sure you can't inject hideous poisons into children and think nothing will happen
12:21:32 kimmedlin There were problems with the first vaccines
12:22:14 vaclib Every ingredient in vaccines is foreign to the body and most ingredients such as formaldehyde, thimerosal and aluminum are also carcinogens
12:22:28 kimmedlin smallpox and polio were never eradicated by the vaccine
12:22:33 lovthatlea one quick check of the ingredients will explain.....aluminum, formaldahyde, mercury, RNA and DNA from diseased animal tissue...yuck
12:22:49 lovthatlea how could this somehow be helpful?
12:23:01 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn ?so what do you suggest, we don't give vaccines to kids
12:23:16 kimmedlin exactly
12:23:19 lovthatlea The would be a big YES!
12:24:10 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn but for school admissions we have the immunization card right
12:24:11 kimmedlin There are no credible health/risk analysis on vaccinations unaccompanied by conflict of interest
12:24:12 vaclib The more you research, the more you will truly want to protect your kids from injections of all kinds. Love Them, Protect Them, Never Inject Them -- a jingle Dewey came up with (our webservant)"
12:24:41 lovthatlea NO.....in most states exemptions are easy....
12:24:54 Mod_SarahPhD Swathi, what state are you in?
12:24:59 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn CA
12:25:08 kimmedlin California is easy
12:25:11 lovthatlea Easiest state!
12:25:11 vaclib If you send your child to public school, you can ask for an exemption form. You can also access these exemptions and your state law on our website  www.vaclib.org
12:25:36 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn Thanks
12:25:39 kimmedlin county health department offices also provide these exemption forms upon request
12:26:04 lovthatlea The school will try and trick you into believing they are mandatory ...they are not
12:26:10 Mod_SarahPhD Forget about the queue... if you have a question, just jump in
12:26:38 lovthatlea anyone have an unvaxxed baby?
12:26:42 kimmedlin that is because teh school receives $50-$100 per registered child inoculated
12:26:50 Mod_SarahPhD yes. me
12:27:02 lovthatlea I know Ingri's is what 20 and unvaxxed?
12:27:05 ourwiefamily I havve 5 unvaxed children (11yo down to 7mo) and one partially vaxed child (now 13yo)
12:27:24 lovthatlea Oh!!! how wonderful!!!
12:27:36 Mod_SarahPhD wow, the school only receives $$ if they are innoculated?
12:27:38 vaclib Do you notice that your baby is healthier than their vaccinated peers"?"
12:27:50 Mod_SarahPhD Yes, I've noticed that for sure
12:27:52 ourwiefamily Is there ever a time when the benefits of vaxing outweigh risks?  Just wondering for third world travel in particular.
12:27:59 lovthatlea I have a page on my site of unvaxxed children ...just for moms to see they are fine...
12:27:59 kimmedlin School districts also receive up to $100 per child on ritalin
12:28:14 kimmedlin there are NO benefits
12:28:16 lovthatlea never.....
12:28:32 Mod_SarahPhD Whoa!  who gives them the $$$  big pharma
12:28:45 vaclib I believe that Dr. Tenpenny is addressing this thrid world question in a future Mothering mag column
12:28:58 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn In what way are unvaxxed kids healthy?
12:29:00 lovthatlea Good I love her stuff
12:29:13 Mod_SarahPhD She did answer a question recently for a mom traveling to India
12:29:23 vaclib Also, if you want more info. on this, I have a lot so email me off this chat vaclib@coldreams.com
12:29:25 Mod_SarahPhD THe question/answer are online
12:29:32 ourwiefamily No, I have not seen that my unvaxed babies are all healthier ... I have one child (my 11yo) who had a severe milk protein allergy who was very very ill a lot despite not being vaxed ~ I just also think he may have been *worse* if we had vaxed.
12:29:40 kimmedlin There are pharma representatives that sit on the CDC immmunization advisory board.  This board makes up the reccomendations
12:30:09 kimmedlin Also making up the schedule
12:30:12 lovthatlea Milk is also hideous....my kids have never had it.
12:30:31 Liba sorry, I got called away at work, but I have a couple questions...  we are moving to Israel soon and Hep A shots have been highly recomended for our whole family and I just recently got a huge lecture on the dangers of chickenpox... does the shot even work
12:30:44 lovthatlea no..
12:30:53 kimmedlin the 60% efficacy claim
12:31:04 Liba I quoted that to him and he insists I am wrong
12:31:09 kimmedlin is only for %60 antibody production from the CP vaccination
12:31:20 Liba told me that it works and even the kids who get CP get it with less severity
12:31:35 lovthatlea wash you hands if you don't want Hep A..most people don't even know they have it its so mild
12:31:40 vaclib There is so many factors that contribute to overall health. But avoiding pasteurized dairy products, junk food and boosting vitamin C intake are basic in my mind to improve overall health.
12:31:52 TurboClaudia aren't they recommending a booster for CP now because of the low efficacy?
12:31:57 Liba I told him that my vacced child had no antibodies and he insisted that the blood test just wasn't a good one
12:32:14 kimmedlin yes, less severity after childhood incolation puts a child at great risk for hospitalization in the future
12:32:25 lovthatlea yes!!! the first one doesn't work so we must need one more! :banghead
12:32:30 Liba LOL you all sound like me, he had flames coming from his ears
12:32:49 Liba I told him that he and his shot were all putting us at greater risk for shingles too
12:32:51 Mod_SarahPhD What do youmean KIm?
12:32:58 TurboClaudia and i read that the CP vaccine is now REQUIRED for students on Long Island, NY
12:33:08 kimmedlin also, a study was put out that adults develop shingles after contact with a vaccinated child
12:33:09 lovthatlea criminals..
12:33:27 lovthatlea yes the vaccines shed
12:33:28 Liba I was told my dd can't go to school tomorow without MMR 1, 2, and 3 and IPV and varicella
12:33:32 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn I am sorry but hwta is shingles?
12:33:34 vaclib Dr. Gary Goldman has done the definitive research on the chickenpox vax/shingles link
12:33:45 dddevane Okay, I am trying to figure out why Chicken pox is dangerous.  I had chickenpox when I was a child.  My brother had chicken pox.  Most of the kids in my neighborhood had chickenpox.  I don't recall any deaths or adverse reactions to the disease.  You just
12:33:46 lovthatlea what state are you in Liba
12:33:51 Liba Massachusetts
12:34:11 Liba the school (private) doesn't care, but the state paid school nurse is up in arms
12:34:12 dddevane get the chicken pox disease, and wait for the body to fight it off.
12:34:15 lovthatlea Ingri do you know off the top of your head? religious exemptions?
12:34:31 dddevane Am I wrong about the dangers of the Chickenpox disease?
12:34:37 kimmedlin Yes
12:34:49 dddevane I'm not getting why there is a need for a chicken pox vaccine.
12:34:52 Liba ;) in a religious school I can't see it going over well... especially since she is selectively immunized
12:34:53 lovthatlea ask her to give you her bank account number and if something adverse happens after the shot you could have access to her funds
12:34:56 kimmedlin the dangers of CP is not as doctors are taught it to be
12:35:21 vaclib In Mass. there is a religious exemption. Jamie Murphy is head of VacLib in Mass. Please contact him -- on our website under resources/state chapters
12:35:45 Liba I have an immunocompromized child who we stupidly vaccinated... they know my objections are philisophical not religious
12:35:58 lovthatlea MMR is made with aborted fetal tissue...bring that up at religious school!
12:36:03 Liba moral actually ;)
12:36:06 kimmedlin It is the vaccine that has exacerbated the CP problems
12:36:12 ourwiefamily the chicken pox saga is what really diminished *ANY* remaining respect I had for the vaccine companies and the entire push for vaxing
12:36:21 vaclib People change religions like they do spouses these days. Don't let that intimidate you.
12:36:38 lovthatlea Wish I could go with you!
12:36:38 Liba it is sick! the reason for the CP vaccine is so parents don't have to miss work LOL
12:37:06 Mod_SarahPhD :D
12:37:07 ourwiefamily remember the commercial on tv with the crying teddy bear saying we wouldn't let our kids play in the street so how could we let them go w/o the c-pox vaccine???
12:37:11 kimmedlin Liba:  That is not even a valid reason for the CP vaccine
12:37:34 ourwiefamily that was the day I threw up my hands in the air and lost any respect for them
12:37:38 Liba I have a BIL who had a bad case of hep A, as an adult, it seems that kids are usually okay, would anyone here consider vaccinating an adult?
12:37:51 vaclib Also, I have in my emails a recent win with a Catholic school over the use of aborted fetal tissue used to culture the CP vax. They successfully got a religious exemption. I believe they pulled in the gal with www.cogforlife.org  Kim, you recently interviewed her on your radio show?
12:37:55 lovthatlea NEVER!
12:38:15 kimmedlin CDC is notorious for this:  If you tell a lie often enough, it will be believed
12:38:35 Liba LOL :)  my BIL was hospitilized so I am nervous
12:38:40 kimmedlin No adult needs a vaccine
12:38:44 lovthatlea vaccines don't work...no one knows how the immune system works why inject something that no one is sure of the outcome?
12:38:47 Liba liver damage, etc
12:38:50 kimmedlin No adult has ever benefited from vaccines
12:39:18 lovthatlea If you are trying to avoid a disease....why inject them in?
12:39:25 Mod_SarahPhD Do others of you have questions?
12:39:28 Liba my 7 year old had one MMR and it did work so far ;) she is still immune on the titers 6 years later, no boosters needed.  who ever decided when and how often to do those boosters?
12:39:31 ourwiefamily I keep debating about the tetanus vaccine ... I know you are going to tell me not to get it for my kids  :)  But tell me WHY to bolster me please!  We would only give it to the kids 7y and older to be able to get the tetanus solo.
12:39:47 kimmedlin There are no difinitive analysis that irrfutably come to any conclusion of benefit
12:39:52 vaclib What people need to do is examine the true effectiveness" of Hep A shots. How do they work? What is the track record of people getting the shot and then contracting Hep A? The CDC admits that no shot is 100% effective, let alone, safe."
12:39:56 kimmedlin ALL tetanus vaccines have 25 mcg of mercury
12:40:11 Liba wow all of them?
12:40:21 kimmedlin the TET vaccine has never been conclusively proven to prevent tetanus
12:40:23 kimmedlin Yes, all of them
12:40:24 lovthatlea it has 25 micrograms of mercury for one...its a bacteria for another...
12:40:41 Liba I was doing the vaccines one at a time and my baby reacted really badly to the DTaP, if anyone wants to learn from my mistakes please do so ;)
12:40:42 ourwiefamily I thought mercury was removed from all domestic childhood vaccines?
12:41:15 lovthatlea Ha!!! they can't its in the manufacturing process
12:41:15 Liba not removed, reduced to the point where they don't declare it
12:41:20 vaclib Yes, tetanus is a spore that thrives in a deep wound that is deprived of oxygen. No vaccine can protect one from dirty wound hygiene.
12:41:25 ourwiefamily hmmm
12:41:31 kimmedlin mercury removal is one of the biggest lies
12:41:56 Mod_SarahPhD Plus, if a wound is well washed and you let it bleed, isnt that the best protection from tetanus?
12:41:57 kimmedlin More vaccine manufacturers have provided mercury free" vaccines but they have NEVER removed mercury"
12:42:02 lovthatlea can you become immune from a bacteria?  I don't think so. Ingri do you know?
12:42:21 kimmedlin Mercury free vaccines are extremely limited
12:42:28 kimmedlin ...and more expensive
12:42:41 vaclib Regarding Mercury-free vaccines, HAPI has lab analyzed these vaccines and ALL of them had mercury, and lead too...
12:42:52 kimmedlin the mercury label has also been removed from mercury containing vials
12:42:57 Mod_SarahPhD Whats HAPI?
12:43:02 Liba and what about all the wonderful aluminum?
12:43:14 lovthatlea Alzheimers!!!
12:43:21 Liba yes
12:43:22 vaclib www.hapihealth.com   Health Advocacy in the Public Interest
12:43:26 kimmedlin mercury containing vaccines have also been removed from the PDR (physician's desk reference)
12:43:34 Liba and lumps under the skin which take months to go away
12:43:46 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn what about the ful shots?
12:43:56 lovthatlea 25 micrograms....
12:44:01 kimmedlin These are two dangerous reasons why pediatricians are not aware that their vaccines still have mercury in them
12:44:03 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn i meant flu shots
12:44:26 kimmedlin according to CDC, they all have 25 mcg of mercury
12:44:34 Liba where can I get articles which show that the CP vaccine isn't efficacious?
12:44:40 ourwiefamily the flu shots is what got my mom to finally be against vaxing!  She used to think I was a little nuts, but now she is So Glad we never vaxed the youngest 5 and that we stopped w/ our oldest.
12:44:41 lovthatlea who wants dead virures injected into their kids?
12:44:41 vaclib Yep, flu shots have 25 mcg just as Wendy said
12:44:45 Mod_SarahPhD I was just talking to a progressive" ped yesterday wh otold me mercury had been removed"
12:45:08 kimmedlin email me for the CP article medlins@cableone.net
12:45:09 Liba lovthatlea or live viruses?
12:45:22 lovthatlea make him show you the package insert and the ask him if they are avain leukosis free
12:45:49 Mod_SarahPhD What is that?  A bird disease
12:45:51 vaclib www.vaccinetruth.org   and www.vaclib.org   both have search engines and info on CP
12:46:04 lovthatlea since its made in chicken eggs they are contaminated with chicken virus
12:46:07 ourwiefamily my best friend got polio from the live polio years ago
12:46:17 kimmedlin luekemia
12:47:19 Liba did I freeze?  I can't see what is happening.
12:47:21 lovthatlea good news...to make you all feel better...FDA has asked them to start screening for AL ....isn't that great!
12:47:50 Mod_SarahPhD what do you mean?
12:47:52 lovthatlea I see you Liba but didn't understand your ?
12:47:58 kimmedlin ingri and wendy correct me if I'm wrong:  but I believe the facts are in simple terms-leukemia is a virus naturally exisiting in the chicken eggs on which the influenza viruses are replicated for vaccine manufacturing
12:48:10 Liba never mind, I see the chat now. sorry.
12:48:21 ourwiefamily Liba .... you said your baby reacted to the DTaP?  My eldest reacted to the DTP.  So is the DTaP really safer" than the DTP?"
12:48:28 vaclib If you read Benjamin McRearden's article What is Coming Through That Needle? THe Problem with Pathogenic Vaccine Contamination -- you will see that all vaccines are contaminated by nature. The article has 116 footnotes and Tenpenny checked all 116 and they all check out...
12:48:38 Liba out ped said no more P or aP for my baby
12:49:11 kimmedlin There is no beneficial/risk difference in those two vaccines: DTP and DTaP
12:49:23 Liba she had a high fever and screamed and was unresonsive to voice or comforting for several hours the night after the vaccine
12:49:25 Liba HOURS
12:49:38 Liba unresponsive
12:49:46 kimmedlin Liba: that's brain damage in progress
12:49:48 Mod_SarahPhD poor thing!
12:49:48 ourwiefamily I had to fight for no more P ... really fight back 13y ago.  That was what started me looking into vaxing in general and then I quit.  Just think, if the dr had taken me seriously, I may have kept vaxing!
12:49:51 Liba :(
12:50:00 lovthatlea mine seized 8x's a day for 3 months after dpat
12:50:01 Liba fists clenched, body trembeling
12:50:18 Liba our ped thought it was the pretusis
12:50:31 kimmedlin Liba:very common reactions
12:50:37 Liba that is what he said.
12:50:38 ourwiefamily See ... I have felt so unsure what to tell new moms these days about the new DTaP ... what is written about it that I can refer them to?
12:50:40 lovthatlea amazing ...most won't admit anything
12:51:05 Mod_SarahPhD What about these moms wh o say their kids have no adverse effects?  What can you say to them?
12:51:10 lovthatlea send them my website
12:51:15 Liba he is good, puts up with my no more than one shot at a time business, I know I should do it at all, but i am having trouble with that, and no shots before 6 months
12:51:21 ourwiefamily please give website again
12:51:23 lovthatlea some adverse events take years...
12:51:25 Liba they are darn lucky LOL
12:51:29 vaclib Makes me cry hearing these stories. This is why I tell people to only see a naturopath, chiro or other alternative practitioner. MDs are trained by medical schools that are funded in large part by big Pharma. So sad...
12:51:30 kimmedlin No adverse effects?
12:51:49 kimmedlin Edverse effects can take place up to 8 years
12:51:54 Liba :-/
12:51:55 kimmedlin and beyond
12:52:16 maemery ?
12:52:16 kimmedlin Anything can happen to a child that can be a result of vaccination
12:52:17 Mod_SarahPhD Yeah, except the child sleeps a lot after teh vaccine.. that's an adverse effect, isn't it?
12:52:18 lovthatlea like in the polio vaccine....a monkey virus cmv...is actually colon cancer...would you attribute that to your polio vaccine? no
12:52:28 vaclib www.vaccinationsandSIDS.com    www.vaclib.org    www.vaccinetruth.org
12:52:28 Liba my oldest has a bone marrow failure syndrom and muscular dystrophy (mild)  I worry about not getting her immunity
12:53:12 Liba mommy guilt goes both ways so strongly
12:53:14 lovthatlea injecting poison and dead virus would not be the way to get immunity!
12:53:19 kimmedlin Liba:  vaccines will only add to the problems with your oldest
12:53:24 Mod_SarahPhD maemery, you have a question-go ahead
12:53:30 lovthatlea guilt...my life story
12:53:56 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn mod_Sarah_PHD: Can you clarify the adverse effect child sleeping?
12:54:03 maemery I see a naturopath doc and he has recommended 3 vax measles, tetanus and diptheria and polio...I really don't want to vaxx at all, but now am not sure what to do
12:54:04 Liba so far we have gotten away with one injection and titers for some of them LOL  she is immune
12:54:09 vaclib Liba, I wrote an article about the use of taheebo tea (Pau d'Arco) that you can find on our website or at www.idaho-observer.com
12:54:14 ourwiefamily our doctor (family practice) is fairly  used to non-vaxing parents so doesn't bother us
12:54:39 kimmedlin sarah:  you want elaboration on why a child can't sleep after inoculation?
12:54:41 lovthatlea fire the naturopath..he is a fake for sure.
12:54:53 Liba why polio??
12:55:05 Liba if we weren't moving to the middle east I never would even consider it!
12:55:18 vaclib Where di your naturopath get her/his training??? Wow!
12:55:21 lovthatlea 59 seperate monkey virus in that one....that one to me is the most scary.
12:55:49 kimmedlin vaccination for travel has resulted in infection and even autism
12:55:51 maemery I have no idea...but it's one that is scaring my husband the most...I do have an elderly cousin 65 y.o. w/polio
12:55:52 Mod_SarahPhD It was a question... lots of moms say their chid sleeps for a long time after being vaccinated... is that a sign of damage?
12:55:56 lovthatlea its made in monkey kidney tissue.....
12:56:10 kimmedlin it could very easily be a sign
12:56:27 kimmedlin A common reaction is parents not being able to wake up their infants
12:56:29 lovthatlea I have a good article on sleeping after dpat by dr Torche.....
12:56:44 maemery I'm bot sure where my naturopath got his training from...but he was/is and MD as well
12:56:56 ImMom98 My dh's sister and brother's sons both have a form of autism, and he keeps trying to tell his mom that that is one reason why we don't vax.  She claims it can't be genetic or vaccines.  My dh tries to tell her that he feels it is a combo of both....
12:57:01 ImMom98 what do you think?
12:57:03 lovthatlea they sleep to soundly  ...don't breath.....that is why they should be on their backs
12:57:03 Mod_SarahPhD Oh, yes... that seems like something is wrong, doesn't it? :angel:
12:57:03 ourwiefamily what is hard for me is how so many people (like on mainstream pg dues lists) tell about bringing their child for vax and then the crying afterward or the sleeping or worse and they just accept it as normal" or for the "greater good" of that child & world"
12:57:37 vaclib Sara, if you read Harris Coulter's book, Vaccination, Social Violence and Criminality: The Medical Assault on the American Brain, you will find that every vaccine causes some degree of encephalitis or swelling of the brain....
12:57:42 Mod_SarahPhD I know, it is hard!
12:57:42 lovthatlea misinformed....like we all were at one time
12:57:50 ourwiefamily And they say things like I hate to see my baby cry, but this is what being a good mom is"."
12:58:12 lovthatlea ugggg :banghead
12:58:27 vaclib That explains it -- the MD" training -- or brainwashing? :-)"
12:58:39 ourwiefamily And sometimes there are these kind of jabs" at those of us who don't vax, at least it seems like it, yk?  I want to yell that sometimes being a good mom means doing something counter cultural."
12:58:42 lovthatlea brainwashing!
12:58:55 kimmedlin Most, if not all ped offices will tell parents that fevers, rash, inconsolable crying...etc. are normal and a sign of good health...but they are wrong
12:59:01 Mod_SarahPhD I find even most otherwise progressive people are brainwashed about vaccines and psychiatric meds
12:59:25 kimmedlin That is how imbedded into the culture vaccines are
12:59:46 lovthatlea that is why we all need billboard in our states...to help advertise there is an alternative
12:59:55 lovthatlea just like they do
12:59:57 ourwiefamily It really took me out of my comfort zone to stop vaxing.  I was such a good" girl, yk."
13:00:15 Mod_SarahPhD I see it is almost 11 am.  Do you experts need to go now?
13:00:17 kimmedlin As I said earlier: If a lie is repeated often enough, it will be believed....even by the masses.  This is the same technique used by Hitler
13:00:17 lovthatlea and a GREAT MOM!!!
13:00:42 lovthatlea I don't
13:00:48 maemery How do I calm my husbands fears about not vaxxing?
13:00:48 kimmedlin I don't
13:01:02 Mod_SarahPhD If you all would like to keep going it is fne
13:01:05 lovthatlea let him read my site or kims site or Ingri's site
13:01:19 Mod_SarahPhD I need to go soon cause baby is calling!
13:01:19 lovthatlea Heck I call him up and talk to him!
13:01:26 vaclib Regarding normal" reactions to shots, I like the bellcurve analogy of minor reactions at one end and death or permanent disablity at the other end -- but what is under the hump? What happens to the majority of kids as a result of vaccines?"
13:01:46 Mod_SarahPhD THank you all for a fantastic chat!
13:01:46 kimmedlin The MD's against vaccines are the ones that have spent countless hours researching through information they are not given in med school
13:01:59 swathi_pathak@yahoo.comn thank you
13:02:12 ImMom98 what is everyone's comeback when someone says that autism isn't caused by vaccines?
13:02:18 lovthatlea pro vaccine doctors haven't studied
13:02:38 overthehills new to this, but struggling with idea that its an odds game, which is better? contracting say Hep B or the odds unknown reactions
13:02:42 kimmedlin It is true that there are other factors at work beside vaccines contributing to autism
13:02:46 ourwiefamily Honestly ... I just don't tell them anymore.  :(
13:03:13 lovthatlea I say really? What does happen when you inject kids with 237 micrograms of mercury?
13:03:21 kimmedlin however, vaccines are the common direct exposure to mercury children receive
13:03:25 onthebrink hi - still chatting?
13:03:30 vaclib Get the REAL transcripts of the IOM meeting in Feb. 2004 on this. Available through VacLib.... The transcriopts show other experts that have proven the connection -- but this is being suppressed...
13:03:45 ourwiefamily Though ... what I usually say is something like no option is risk free.  That is why it is important to research.  We may come to different conclusions looking even at the same resource, but it's important for us to make informed decisions.""
13:03:48 lovthatlea yes we are still chatting.
13:04:07 kimmedlin a natural infection of hepatitis b is beneficia (speaking from experience)
13:04:17 vaclib Thanks everyone! I have a VacLib call I need to return -- she's called twice now... :-)
13:04:31 lovthatlea see ya Ingri!!!
13:04:35 kimmedlin natural infection is followed by lifetime immunity
13:04:36 ourwiefamily And I find that often when others do their own research, they at minimum modify their vax stance ... either delaying or selective or stopping altogether.
13:04:52 overthehills yeah? so different from the info i've gotten so for
13:05:14 kimmedlin If you research vaccines and continue to vaccinate your children, you haven't researched enough
13:05:30 lovthatlea what have you seen over the hill?
13:05:30 overthehills hear there was severe liver damage asso. with disease
13:05:51 lovthatlea in a severally immunocompromised person maybe
13:06:08 maemery I've got my husband down to only wanting to do the three vaccines Polio, tetanus/dip and measles)...but beyond that he's not budging
13:06:12 onthebrink kim - do you really think so?
13:06:12 ourwiefamily kimmedlin interesting point!
13:06:19 kimmedlin I know so
13:06:28 onthebrink hmm... interesting!
13:06:58 kimmedlin the risks are still there even for children who's parents wait
13:07:00 ourwiefamily I have gotten to a point in my life where I don't spend as much time trying to convert or get the word out.  I'm more just wanting to make my decisions and have people just leave me alone.  Am I getting old and crabby or what?
13:07:04 onthebrink (we vax.  i am not here to debate.  it would be rude of me!)
13:07:27 onthebrink karla - i hear ya on that!!!
13:07:27 lovthatlea oh please debate!!! That makes it fun!
13:07:38 onthebrink :)  too tired to debate!
13:07:44 kimmedlin children are now being diagnosed with late onset autism even at 4 years of age and older
13:07:53 overthehills can find the site at hand, sorry, Ped's diatribe as well
13:07:58 onthebrink a non-sleeping 7 month old makes a cranky mama!
13:08:02 lovthatlea how old are your kids?
13:08:24 onthebrink 7 months (boy) and 4 years (girl)
13:08:35 lovthatlea both vaxxed?
13:08:47 overthehills sorry ww2 just broke out, arg
13:08:51 onthebrink yes
13:09:10 onthebrink i wish more people would use mommychats more often!  it's so cool!
13:09:29 kimmedlin If vaccines don't work for infants or adults, how will they work for children and/or teens?
13:09:37 lovthatlea I wish I could go back to believing vaccines are good....what do you say in your mind when you do it?
13:10:24 kimmedlin Safety and efficacy of vaccines have never been conclusively proven
13:10:28 onthebrink are those questions for me?  i'm lost!
13:10:39 lovthatlea yes...onthe brink!
13:10:39 kimmedlin There are no difinitive benefit/risk analysis for ANY vaccine
13:10:58 kimmedlin Questions for everyone
13:11:05 onthebrink sorry!  multitasking!
13:11:07 ourwiefamily my biggest things w/ vaxing ... 1)  I do NOT believe it should be required by any law.  I think the parents should have last word to say no.  2)  I would like true information to be given out ... clearly and concisely.  There are so many lies told.
13:11:28 onthebrink i think about how i know this is the best choice for us.
13:11:40 maemery I'm with you onthat one Kim
13:11:45 kimmedlin Vaccines are a black/white issue
13:11:48 onthebrink karla - i agree, esp with #1!!!
13:12:11 kimmedlin Going ahead with vaccines is to go ahead with half truths/ half lies
13:12:17 onthebrink kim - i disagree.  few things are b/w
13:12:41 lovthatlea please share your side...why do you vaccinate
13:12:51 ourwiefamily Of course ... I also wish that medicine that they would focus on TRUE prevention in all areas instead of always treating symptoms
13:13:15 onthebrink a truth is that lots of kids have been veru sick or dead because of things that vax can prevent.  i don't want that kind of truth in my family!
13:13:18 ourwiefamily and I mean, nutrition and finding the cause for ear infections and things like that
13:13:37 kimmedlin But is that the truth?
13:13:41 onthebrink good point karla/ourwiefamily!
13:13:46 kimmedlin Do ANY vaccines prevent?
13:14:00 onthebrink i think to you can find data to support anything you want.
13:14:29 ourwiefamily onthebrink ... I have a best friend who got polio from the vaccine and a son who reacted severely to the DTP ... so that is my reality.  :(
13:14:34 lovthatlea my son got whooping cough after 4 vaccines...they called it acute broncitis.....where was the protection?...then I realized ...duh I injected wc into him 4 times no wonder he got it!
13:14:36 kimmedlin According to Merck's own manual, doing anything to augment an infant's immune system does not prevent infection or death
13:14:44 onthebrink there is lots out there that says breastfeeding is no different from formula.  i disagree with that!
13:14:50 onthebrink i'm sorry, karla!
13:15:12 onthebrink my father figure lost his brother to polio and is disabled because of it.
13:15:29 kimmedlin And what is polio?
13:15:32 kimmedlin It is not a virus
13:15:36 ourwiefamily My best friend's son got german measles even though he was fully vaxed ... and the doctor was claiming it was something else because he couldn't get it because he was vaxed" but ended up there was a big outbreak.  It was scary because he was"
13:15:39 kimmedlin it is a condition
13:15:44 ourwiefamily exposed to my pg sister when sick.
13:15:47 lovthatlea wonder if he was exposed to DDT...like most people with polio""
13:15:52 kimmedlin inflammation of the spinal area and surrounding the brain
13:16:11 kimmedlin pharma took proteins from those areas and replicated them to create the vaccine
13:16:29 ourwiefamily So to me ... it's just not that clear cut.  I see a lot of damage from teh vax and also from doctors assuming truths" that aren't true about vaxing (like you can't get it if you were vaxed)"
13:16:33 onthebrink i love hearing such passionate mamas!
13:16:47 kimmedlin those proteins come from individuals with polio symptoms""
13:16:53 ourwiefamily Plus ... my state had a HUGE pertussis outbreak when I was pg last time.  It was fascinating to listen to the CDC during the outbreak and our state too
13:16:57 lovthatlea wait until your kids is damaged and join our crusade!
13:17:04 onthebrink that said - i'm just not up forthe debate today.
13:17:15 ourwiefamily They kept telling us all to stay calm ... not what they say most of the time when they are wanting us to vax
13:17:21 onthebrink wow - ok, signing off
13:17:41 lovthatlea see ya!
13:18:04 ImMom98 lol
13:18:10 kimmedlin I take it everybody else currently in the room does not vaccinate at all?
13:18:32 ourwiefamily My doctor (pro vax doctor) said he thought it was antibiotics and early detection that cut the epidemic off long before anticipated
13:18:38 maemery our first child is due in June...hoping not to vaxx at all
13:18:44 lovthatlea whats up immom? is that a happy face?
13:18:57 ImMom98 my oldest is almost fully vax except for her last MMR, and my 2nd dd is non-vaxed
13:19:02 ourwiefamily (they expected it to explode when school started, but instead it dropped off completely)
13:19:08 lovthatlea yeah!!!!
13:19:30 ImMom98 no, I typed L-O-L" at your comment and then she lefted"
13:19:48 ourwiefamily I think most of the time they miss most of the diagnosis of pertussis because they are assuming because of vaxing that the person can't have it.
13:20:09 kimmedlin They also miss due to improper testing
13:20:10 maemery ImMom, what made you decide not to vaxx 2nd child?
13:20:16 ourwiefamily anyway ... we really went through agonizing about whether to vax or not the baby esp since she'd be a newborn in the middle of what was a huge epidemic
13:20:20 ImMom98 we stopped vax when my oldest was 4 yr old when I was PG with #2 and my doula opened my eyes to vaccines
13:20:45 lovthatlea bless her heart
13:20:54 ImMom98 my doula was a flake, and I ended up firing her for other reasons, but I look back today and thank her for opening our eyes
13:21:04 ourwiefamily but the CDC was talking about things to do to minimize and we knew the vax wouldn't protect fully anyway, so we decided to follow the other measures (common sense ... no big crowded areas w/ lots of sick people, not letting strangers or sick people hld bby
13:21:28 lovthatlea good plan
13:21:39 maemery I understand the pertussis vax is maybe only about 50% effective anyway
13:21:43 ImMom98 Now I regret vaxing my oldest, is there anything to detox her?
13:21:47 ourwiefamily like I said, it's amazing how they want everyone to relax and not panic when in the middle of an epidemic and how they go out of their way to calm people down and minimize the disease and stress how well they can treat it in hospital now, etc.
13:22:05 ourwiefamily But when there is no epidemic they are trying to MAKE everyone panic so they will get the shot!
13:22:13 lovthatlea fear...they love to stir it up...sells lots of vaccines..
13:22:32 kimmedlin Okay, gang
13:22:33 ourwiefamily Okay ... sorry but have to get off the computer now!  bye everyone. Thanks for the great chat and for bolstering me on the tetanus (to not do it I mean)
13:22:40 kimmedlin bye
13:22:43 ImMom98 bye
13:22:49 lovthatlea Yeah!!! makes me feel great!!
13:22:53 lovthatlea bye
13:23:02 maemery bye thanks
13:23:04 lovthatlea anyone else want to talk?
13:23:36 ImMom98 I am free to talk (hoping my 2 yr old will come and  :nak: )
13:24:05 ImMom98 but u know a toddler nursing is only for a sip here and there until they are really tired
13:24:56 maemery How is she doing not being vaxxed? Do you see a diff btw your first and second child?
13:25:05 ImMom98 oh yes!
13:25:15 ImMom98 my dh and I talk about that all the time
13:25:20 maemery In what ways?
13:26:09 lovthatlea healthy I bet!
13:26:22 ImMom98 my firstborn has chronic ear infections starting at 6 months old and then she got tubes @ 18 months cuz she had fluid that wouldn't go away and constant high temps from it, and now my 2 yr old has had maybe 3-4 ear infections that resolved themselves
13:26:39 lovthatlea big difference
13:26:49 maemery wow
13:27:03 ImMom98 my favorite thing that I am so proud of her immune system is for she had HiB last year which she was sick with cold like symptoms for 3-4 weeks, but her body fought it off
13:27:27 lovthatlea anytime you want to write your story of vax vs unvaxxed let me know
13:27:57 maemery when she got it, were youworried because she wasn't vaxxed for it?
13:28:08 ImMom98 I had the DR do a nasal culture to see what her sickness was, and the culture came back with high counts of H.influenzae bacteria in her respirtory tract
13:28:31 ImMom98 I think what is the point of the vaccine for HiB........so parents don't miss a month of work?
13:28:52 maemery did you use homeopathy or hebs for it?
13:29:07 maemery ohh I see, easier for the parents!!
13:29:25 ImMom98 when I found out that it was HiB, I read about it and of course there was terrible stuff out there, but she has already had it 3 weeks, and I knew she wasn't getting worse, so I let her fight it
13:29:48 maemery that is awesome!
13:29:59 ImMom98 not really, I took extra Vit C and garlic, but I realized it was something that just had to work its way out of her system
13:30:50 ImMom98 I need to study more on herbs and homeopathy, I have a lot of stuff here, but I don't know how to use it :-(
13:31:34 maemery it does take some time...I have been using herbs and homeopathy for over 10 years
13:31:43 ImMom98 oh cool
13:32:12 ImMom98 my dh just mentioned something else that my vaxed dd always has which is a very croupy cough with each cold she has
13:32:38 ImMom98 she had croup A LOT has a baby and toddler, my non-vaxed dd hasn't had it once (knock on wood)
13:32:50 maemery the natural remedies may be something to help your vaxxed child out with her immune system
13:33:28 ImMom98 I can't recall Cami ever having a cough  (just glouting over my child's immune system)
13:33:31 lovthatlea We cured my son with homeopathy
13:33:40 ImMom98 what did he have?
13:34:10 ImMom98 does anyone have any suggestions on detoxing my oldest?  Is it worth it?  I am sure the damage is done.
13:34:19 lovthatlea It really works..sounds like you child might need a constitutional remedy....siezures from vaccines