Enki Education Chat with Founder Beth Sutton
www.enkieducation.org
9/3/04

Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:hello everyone! welcome to mommy chats' first enki education chat!
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:beth sutton is our guest speaker today, and is the founder of enki....
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:beth, why don't you introduce yourself :)
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:and i just want to remind everyone to keep side conversations to private messages
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:to private message someone you find their name in the list on the right------------------->
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:Hello. So I think I have to admit that this is my first chat and all the toys are giving me the sillies so I may take a moment to get coherent lol
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:and double click their name and it will bring up a new window
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:hehe beth
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:oh i forgot to mention...its a good idea to change the color of your text...to do that go up to the top of the chat window and click on the "colors" button
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:angela, you there?
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:Now actually I am here - so, I am the developer and director of Enki education. I started teaching 35 years ago in East Harlem Headstart in NY suring an Urban studies internship in high school and never stopped. - that is a start
Njella [0/] Msg:oh yes I am here
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:ok
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:east harlem, wow
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg::)
beth_sutton [0/] Msg: While you read that I will go on a bit. Over the years I came to feel that the union of form and freedom was the key to really cultivating the children's vitality and wisdom and that eventually led me to Waldorf and to the big question - how are we differed
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:oh yes THE question, lol
10hands [0/] Login:
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:hi 10hands!
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:Some of the the main differences apply to both homeschooling and classroom - some don't . I don't want to repeat what you already know so it would help to know who has read the stuff on the Monthly Q & A on the web site, who has read the blurb on Anthroposophy
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:and what questions that leaves you with
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:i have read them both several times
Njella [0/] Msg:I saw the video, but don't really understand anthroposophy
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:and i sent them out to everyone as well, so hopefully those here have read them, if they got my posts/emails...
Njella [0/] Msg:I read the emails too
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:don't worry angela, i don't either, lol
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:So what applies to both homeschooling and classroom is that we are growing out of a non-hierarchical multiculturalism
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:i love that
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:So in each grade we work with the same developmental themes as Waldorf but we do it through the eyes of many cultures
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:This also means that as you hit grades 3-8 you are replaying the developmental theme 3 times a year
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:this is to bring the experiential message that this is the human journey and joins rather than separates us all
imawriter [0/] Msg:I have read some about anthroposophy but have just touched on the tip of the iceberg. Also read the last 2 Q & A on the website but wasn't sure how to get to previous ones.
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:and to give those developing at different rates an chance to take the journey at their pace. And to give everyone the experiential message that all these developmental experiences come again and again in life as we meet new things
beth_sutton [0/] Msg: Questions on that?
Njella [0/] Msg:that sounds wonderful!
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:what would an example of developmental themes be?
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:Sorry about my typing handicap - developmental themes are the inner longings and tasks that children have as they develop - like the two year old seeking autonomy
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:oh by the way, since there's not many people in here right now....i think we can just throw out our questions for now....i'll let ya know if we need to go to PM....i changed my mind :)
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:Or the 8 year old coming into an awakened relationship with the world
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:oh right, the "thread" that you talked about in the video?
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:yup
10hands [0/] Msg:in a homeschool setting where you do not have other children to reflect the themes to come or past what do you do with the child who may appear stuck in a theme
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:can you elaborate more on what you mean?
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:while we wait for 10hands to reply...beth, the multiculturalism in enki, that's not seen in waldorf?
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:i'm just curious
10hands [0/] Msg:take a child say in grade 1 who really becomes anxious about the idea of change and still needs to be bathed in the security of the kindergarten theme.
10hands [0/] Msg:in a classroom they can see other children coping, be exposed to the harder material but still get extra nurturance from the teacher
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:that's a good question, 10hands
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:This is hard - I am going to finish answering Tina and then return to the developmental one the point of view I talked about in the Anthroposophy article, all cultures as stepping stones or building blocks to the turning point of time.
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:yes that's wonderful, i like that
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:In Enki all cultures are seen as expressing the same wisdom and vitality as equal paths up the mountain.
beth_sutton [0/] Msg: Okay - give me a minute to get into the other question
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:sounds like unitarianism :)
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:So now we get more into the depth of all this. My experience and Steiners clairvoyance both see the children moving through the inner longings or developmental threads in a remarkably uniform manner - whether they are mentally quick or slow, physically agile
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:agile etc. So if they are hanging onto a theme way past the moment (and I would not consider a 1st grader in need of safety to be way past the moment), then they are probably trying to tell us something we are not hearing
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:hm, good point
imawriter [0/] Msg:What do you mean by children replay a developmental theme 3 x a year in 3-8 grade? Is that something all children do without realizing it or are you saying it's part of the curriculum?
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:I would have to know a lot more about he anxiety and the whole situation to have any idea, but how I would use the developmental question on this is to alert me that I may be missing something if the anxiety is disproportionate.
beth_sutton [0/] Msg:That last bit relates to the developmental question- - I find this approach to speaking hard!
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:lol, you're doing great beth!
imawriter [0/] Msg:Me too. It's soooo slow :) guess you get better at it with practice! LOL
10hands [0/] Msg:i guess what i wonder about is how to judge that disproportion when you have so few comparisons and do not get to see the themes being constantly replayed by multiple children
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:i would imagine that would be where homeschooling social groups and such would come in handy
geogirl [0/] Login:
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:ok, beth just called me because her computer crashed
yogamom25 [0/] Login:
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:she's going to dictate to me and i'll share (*NOTE: transcripts have been edited so as to make more sense...at this point i was doing all beth's typing but to help it make more sense, i've edited the transcripts so that it now says beth instead of me, because they were her words dictated over the phone to me. and that's why i don't say anything more from here on, since i was typing for beth. apparently i type a lot faster than her so she found this a much better way to communicate after her computer crashed. and while i was editing the transcripts i went ahead and edited typos and rearranged the order of some answers as well, so these will hopefully be clearer than the original chat was. hehe*)
10hands [0/] Msg:also the child have to get through it all without a model so to speak seeing other kids either in their class or the school as community paralleling their themes
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:yes the children replay the developmental themes many times on their own
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and we also do it through the curriculum
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:for example, in 3rd grade we focus on creation myths
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:so we will spend one term working with the torah
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:one term maybe with a native american creation myth
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and maybe one term with a south american creation myth
imawriter [0/] Msg:Oh, I see.
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:10hands---why do the themes seem to be an issue as far as isolation goes?
10hands [0/] Msg:um...i'm not sure it is the isolation as much as knowing when to move on to the next level. one of the benefits of homeschooling is tailoring the curriculum fit. Each year is basically one theme so moving forward or staying back is difficult
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:ultimately the only guide any of us have is our intuition...that's why the first course in enki training is Rousing intuition
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:the tricky thing is to be sure that our fear for the child is not stopping us from giving him the very challenge he needs.
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:but ultimately the gift we can give the children is trusting our intuition
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and being open to change

beth_sutton[0/] Msg:welcome yogamom and geogirl
geogirl [0/] Msg:Thanks
 

yogamom25 [0/] Msg:I was wondering about two things- first, I noticed that all the grades have a sample schedule in the teaching guide for the week/month but Kindy- is there a recommended schedule for K?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:there is a sample day in the curriculum guidebook...all the books....
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:the only difference from one day to the next is that the crafts or projects time will one day be painting, one day be crafts, nature walks, baking, etc
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:the thing at home, homeschool, the children really just need a natural rhythm of the day
jennyfresno [0/] Login:
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:where they have a chance to really sink into their play....and you use the stories and songs to create a rhythmic flow so that they can sink into their play which is the job of a kindergartener
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:jen, good to see you!
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:As a yoga teacher, the practice is part of our daily lives.  I noted that yoga poses are used in circles, but it was referenced that circles are not readily available when homeschooling.  How does one work the yoga practice into the rhythm of the Enki homeschool day- or where should we schedule it, I guess I should ask, since my children tend to follow mommy or "mirror" during my yoga practice. (I usually practice in the morning and I also practice after they are in bed- twice a day is integral for me)
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:we look at all the aspects of the day in terms of "why" are we doing them....so the circle we're looking for things that draw the family or class together. in a family that might be as simple as grace before breakfast.
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:then we look to bring the child to physical integration in himself with his breath and heartbeat really moving. that might be a speed walk, yoga, digging in the garden...
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and we look to strengthen neurological nourishment and integration
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and that too might happen through yoga or yard work that is written about extensively in our guides.
Njella [0/] Msg:When you get a chance can you talk about how these children fair when it comes to applying for college?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:our first students are just turning 18 but they have been out of enki schools since 6th grade so its not really a fair test in any direction
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:what i can tell you is that they did extremely well going from enki elementary into other 7th grades
Njella [0/] Msg:so do you encourage High school?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:teachers particularly remarked how open and enthusiastically they were to learn which is uncommon in adolescence
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:we have a full high school plan which centers around apprenticeships...
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:but we are too young to have gotten that far, we hope to get there one day
Njella [0/] Msg:oh ok thanks
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:until now we have used Five In A Row loosely- it is a literature based unit study program, I noted that many of the stories are in the Enki manuals- having come from unit studies and lapbooking are their any tips you have on merging that into the rhythm
beth_sutton[0/] Msg: i don't know what 5 in a row is
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:they're not going to be the same stories because all the stories have been adapted to express the enki philosophy
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:which is spelled out in your guide
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:right- thus not using the traditional book
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:??
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:but how do you move away from that when your house is covered in children's literature and using the Enki-fied stories
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:move away from what?
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:picture books used before
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:there's no problem with beautiful picture books
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:right- but if you have the same books as those in the Enki guides- but they have been changed--- what do you do with that
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:if the same story is written up in the enki resource book....look at it and see if you want to go with the differences and see why we've chosen to make the changes
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:what book do you have?
imawriter [0/] Msg:Can you give us an example of a story we might all be familiar with, how it was changed for enki and why?
10hands [0/] Msg:5 in a row does some pretty serious conceptualizing about the stories too-like pulling geography lessons and moral lessons from the book
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:it recommends memorizing the stories as a teacher, but as a homeschooler does this hold the same importance for the integrity of the telling
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:imawriter--actually i can't...this is a very detailed question that has to do with all of our philosophy including multicultural outlook and the developmental picture...
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:if someone's interested in materials they can email me and i can send them some long printouts on these questions
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:yogamom25--storytelling: in the classroom we strongly recommend, close to require, that the teacher tells the stories...
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:because she is dealing with an entire classroom and its important that she can respond energetically to the children...
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:also because its important that she is holding the story within herself.
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:the classroom allows the children to fade into anonymity as they take the story in
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and that is critical to the process of learning
yatah [0/] Login:
[0/] Msg:homeschooling:
geogirl [0/] Msg:My question for Beth. When teaching (homeschooling/mothering) young children the teacher needs to be an extention of the environment, centered, calm, silent. This seems to be difficult for me as a mother who has tended to talk to her children quite a bit.
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:in the homeschool, it would be far too personal to sit or stand and tell the child a story you've learned.....
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:its much more normal to sit with them and read together
yatah [0/] Msg:hello there iam deaf mom and i have twins they are 4 yrs old
geogirl [0/] Msg:Is the key to becoming this type of teacher meditation and centering?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:however, it's still important that you have made a relationship and chosen well before you read it to the child
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:of course at home or at school, stories you make up will always be told to them....but at home they'll probably be in your lap or by your side
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:ok, hold on ladies, catching up.....
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:it appears that some of you have bought books secondhand....so your questions are on an entirely different level...because you have the books....
yatah [0/] Logout:_
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:it would be best if you would email me and lets get you into the yahoogroup where you can get the answers to your questions
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:geogirl--yes, one of the keys is meditation and centering and that's part of what will help you stop talking or explaining unnecessarily
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:new questions?
Njella [0/] Msg:how do we get a school like that started here LOL I love it!
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:its an enormous amount of work....
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:the starting point is just to gather a core group of potential teacher, parents, administrators and do the teacher training program
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:if you are homeschooling and have younger ones- is it appropriate for them to join in the songs and finger plays? Until what age before they should have separate or can they be done together always- mine are 4 yrs. apart
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:for the teacher training program you come out here for a month twice (2 julys) the rest is online
Njella [0/] Msg:and to pay for it all?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:Njella -- yes
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:yogamom25 -- most important for the little ones is that their world is not separated out and that they can be part of everything
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:so if you are doing songs and finger plays and they join in, that's great...
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:if its an activity or story that is too old for them, then do it during a rest or quiet time for them
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:just with the older one while the younger is resting
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:one issue we think is very important...is helping the children learn to take inward time every day.
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:they don't have to be sleeping...they can look at books, story tapes....we would recommend all children have an inward quiet time alone every day right up to their teens
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:they can hate it, that's ok
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:that's part of learning to turn inward when you feel unsettled
10hands [0/] Logout:_
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:so look for things that will help bridge that like story tapes or particular toys they like
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:no tv
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:we do lots of yoga as a family since I teach it and the kids mirror during my practice- where does that fit in our daily rhthym
beth_sutton0/] Msg:wherever it works in your family
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:the first thing in the morning is a good time to ground the body
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:when we do it as a family though- is that still a contraction or otherwise?
imawriter [0/] Msg:Any thoughts on how to implement quiet time? It works OK now as I am pregnant and try to nap with 2 year old giving the 6 year old an hour or so by himself. But what suggestions for when baby is born and 2 year old is 3 and not napping anymore?
geogirl [0/] Msg:story tapes are ok but not tv, we don't use tv but do use story tapes and childrens music. That is ok?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg: yogamom25--subtleties of what makes contraction, expansion or grace....is somewhat subtle and one can't just assume a particular activity is any one
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:rather you have to sense the energy of what they're doing...are they focusing hard or just relaxing into it letting the known routines carry them?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:story tapes are great
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:children may initially resist the quiet time alone
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:but if you are solidly clear that this is for them and not against them....and that its non-negotiable they will learn to turn inward for their nourishment
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:that may be the most important thing we can teach them in their entire lives
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:mine likes quiet time but resists just sitting and listening- she has to have something in her hands like colors, clay, etc.- is that still quiet time?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:that's ok, let her color
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:its the lack of engagement with other that constitutes that turning in
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:i have to say cutting out tv greatly improved that- we were seeing a large lack of turning in with just a few hours a week
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:yes that's true for some children
imawriter [0/] Msg:So each person in the home would actually need his/her own separate space for quiet time?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:for some children it takes virtually none (tv) to get them into a hyped up state
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:other children can handle some...but those tv, and video games and computer use are culprits in drawing them away from their centered nourishment
jennyfresno [0/] Msg:if we had enough moms interested in the training, could those two months be taught in Fresno?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:imawriter --yes, quiet time is really alone time
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:is their appropriate computer use or is technology addressed at a certain age- mine are fascinated by the computer though I resist their pleas right now
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:jennyfresno -- training-- because i do the training year in and year out the training is only offered where i live
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:however,
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:if people buy and work with the books...homeschooling conferences which are one week long
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:can be offered anywhere where 10 people can be gathered
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and where you will make the arrangements for lodging, childcare, etc
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:yogamom25 -- computer technology-- we recommend not really including it until 9yrs old and then just for library skills
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:in 8th grade they do real computer study...in a home situation it might be fine to let them play on it for short spurts...but you have to watch your children...for some any would be too much, others short spurts will be fine.
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:don't judge by their behavior when they're at the computer ...but by how they behave when they're going from the computer to participation in family activity
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:we "visit" places occasionally online- like the London Zoo to watch the animals being fed, etc but I wasn't sure how to judge that
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:that could be fine for short spurts
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:but remember the computer screen itself is a strain on the children's eyes while they're just learning this 2dimensional focus
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:short spurts=10min?
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:back to a homeschooling conference- what are the costs to bring you here for that?
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:tuition is $500 a person for the week
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:i handle the air fare, you put me up and feed me
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:and you do all the arranging for everyone else's space, housing, childcare, etc
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:homeschooling conferences are only done for people working with the material
imawriter [0/] Msg:Gotta go, it's dinner time in KY but not going to logout yet so I can read the rest of the chat. Thanks, Ladies!
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:ok, the transcripts will be up later
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:ok, one more question...anyone?
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:is that it then?
Njella [0/] Msg:Thank you for taking the time to chat with us... will you be doing this again?
yogamom25 [0/] Msg:Thank you for your time!
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:we'll see
beth_sutton[0/] Msg:it was nice to meet you all and you can find out more on the website: www.enkieducation.org
beth_sutton0/] Msg:goodbye!
Webmama_Tina [0/] Msg:goodbye!